The Cathedral of Hope — an LGBTQ+-affirming United Church of Christ in Dallas, Texas — has made a concerted effort to defend the queer community from “persecution,” as the state government targets drag queens and transgender people.
The church recently held a service where they blessed drag queens and pledged to “stand for justice, proclaim love, and protect the rights of all people.”
While about three dozen protestors stood outside of the church hurling slurs and threats, approximately 850 people attended the service.
“Anyone check the weather today?!” one protester screamed. “’Cause it might rain fire and brimstone on this church and burn every homo inside!”
But for the ugliness on display outside, the congregation filled the building with love and “radical inclusivity.”
“We recognize that all people are made in the loving image of God, no matter who they are, how they dress, express themselves, or who they love,” the pastor intoned during the service. “We celebrate this divine diversity and commit to lifting up the voices of the LGBTQ+ community and creating spaces where everyone can thrive.”
As one worship leader noted as the pastor gave communion, “Drag queens are often targets of hate and violence.” The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, in particular, were singled out for particular honor due to their lifesaving work during the AIDS epidemic.
“These Sisters were at the bedsides of men dying of AIDS,” Rev. Dr. Neil G. Thomas said. “They bring humor, they bring activism, they provide and bring a level of spirituality that many of us have had taken away from us. Despite the humor, they take their spiritual work very seriously.”
The service was a response to recently passed legislation meant to make a drag a crime. The law, passed by Republicans, has been challenged in court by civil rights groups and blocked repeatedly by federal courts.
The law punishes drag performers and venues with a $10,000 fine if they allow a minor to see a “sexually explicit” performance. Such a performance is defined as one in which “a male performer [is] exhibiting as a female, or a female performer exhibiting as a male, who uses clothing, makeup, or other similar physical markers and who sings, lip syncs, dances, or otherwise performs before an audience.”
Lawyers from the Texas Attorney General’s office argued that because the law didn’t specifically mention drag, it wasn’t discriminatory to drag performances. However, in June, Gov. Greg Abbott (R) shared a story about the law’s passage that contained the headline, “Texas Governor Signs Law Banning Drag Performances in Public,” and added the comment, “That’s right.” Many state politicians who supported the law also publicly stated that it was meant to target drag, specifically.
But would the law apply to churches? That’s unclear.
“My kid was here,” the lead pastor said. “I don’t have the right to choose to bring my kid to church when there are drag queens?”
You have to be a real fucking idiot if you think the bible tells you to hate others. Jesus’s whole fucking message was love everyone no matter what. He literally walked with lepers and washed others feet. Fuck these people (the Texans they are defying)
Edit: clarification on who to fuck
The Bible contains quite a bit of hating others... God is a real piece of shit in the old testament. What did Job do to deserve what he got? Why did he tell Abraham to kill his own son for a goof? The book literally justifies slavery.
According to the book, Jesus is God, so..........
Yeah, but like fuck the Old Testament. That shit is just stories. The New Testament is where I feel the actual messages are. That’s just my belief others can feel differently I don’t care. However, I do care if you use your religion to expose hate and violence. Be better, love everyone regardless of what they are. You can not enjoy their company or not want to associate with them, but lift them up always. I don’t know if I worded that last bit properly 😅
Ok, just pointing out that your beliefs are not consistent with your holy book.
By what criteria are you able to justify ignoring parts of the book and not others? Is it not the inerrant word of God? Didn't Jesus say that he didn't come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it? He made it very clear that you can't just throw away the OT.
You seem to have good values, just don't see the reason any kind of unscientific claims about the supernatural need to be a part of it. Just unnecessary baggage.
Jesus consistently preached basically in opposition to those obscure Old Testament hate filled passages. Look in the other comment chain for the Matthew verse. To expand on what I said, I don’t think all of the OT is garbage, but I do think most of it is up to personal interpretation to a point. If you get to a point your interpretations are hateful you’ve fucked up.
I don’t exactly think Jesus was supernatural, I believe he existed and that he was trying to teach the world a lesson that still holds true today. Whether he was a messiah or not is up to personal interpretation and I’m not gonna tell people they can’t believe that.
I think the New Testament is mostly garbage that is filled with stories/ideas that are very much up to personal Interpretation, exactly how I view the other Abrahamic faiths. Each of the Gospels has their own interpretation of Jesus and their own agenda to push.
Jesus absolutely never ever refuted or went against the Torah in the Gospels. People accused him of it, but that's only their interpretation of the law that he broke, not his own. He just didn't want people to be burdened needlessly by the law, that's all. Jewish sects of the time were fighting over semantics and interpretation of the Torah.
They fought about things like, what constituted working on the Sabbath? Could you go into your farm and pick some fruit on the Sabbath, or would that be a form of work. Some Jews would say 'fuck yes that's work bitch'. Jesus thought that YHWY created the sabbath to help and benefit humankind, and that it was silly to look at such small details while bigger details, like human suffering, went ignored.
Same as Christian sects do today, over the same kind of bullshit too.
I don't believe in anything supernatural at all. I think Jesus of nazareth was a nutter who thought his God was going to swoop in and make him king and get rid of the Roman's oppressing his homeland and people, but got executed as an enemy of the state. He also had some tasty views on rich people, so overall cool dude in my book. Fuck the Roman's.
Christianity started out as a Jewish sect by the way. Christianity became anti-jewish over time because they couldn't convince Jews that Jesus was the Messiah. Probably because the Jewish Messiah was supposed to be a grand warrior figure that was going to overthrow the Roman's and Jesus was executed by the Roman's in one of the most dehumanizing and humiliating ways they had. Its why gentiles were easier to convert than Jews, they didn't have explain that away.
You should read up on the historical Jesus, Bart Ehrman is my absolute favorite author on the New Testament and the Historical Jesus. Israel Finklestein has a delightful book on the historical side of the Hebrew Bible, I think the Great Courses Plus has a lecture series on that as well.
Here's a YouTube Playlist from Bart Ehrmans lecture series on the historical Jesus, it is missing the best episodes sadly, but still great. People can get the full thing on audible, it's so worth it.
Edit: I miss r/askbiblescholars so bad 😫 I miss you RIF
That was a delightfully insightful comment, thanks a lot 🤩
If you don't believe that Jesus died and rose again for your sins, then you're not a Christian by definition.
Also, those are not "obscure" stories. They're the basis of all Abrahamic religions, including Christianity. In fact, the only reason there even is a NT is because they wanted to write about the "prophecies" from the OT "coming true." You can't have one without the other.
And, once again, Jesus is God. God did really fucked up things in the old testament, that means Jesus did really fucked up things. In the NT he supported those fucked up things that he did, and his existence itself is allegedly a fulfillment of OT prophecy. That's why they killed him! Assuming he ever existed in the first place.
Not trying to be a dick, but as someone who was raised in an evangelical church, I know the Bible inside and out. People who pick and choose, or pretend they can be Christian and still think being gay is ok, piss me off because it's a direct contradiction of what you claim to believe.
People like you legitimize a barbaric religion that is (once again) destroying the fabric of our society. Be honest with yourself and come to terms with the fact that your religion condones slavery, and killing people for being homosexual.
Never claimed to be a Christian. I don’t legitimize these barbaric idiots, I believe they’re wrong, that’s my interpretation of the OT. I know I’m not wrong because it’s religion not science, you can believe whatever you want.
You can believe the sky is pink and grass is orange, doesn't make you right.
So you think something philosophical in nature has a black and white right or wrong about what to believe in? Like I said it’s not science it’s religion/philosophy
Just because you imagine something doesn't make it real.
What an awful reduction of what was being discussed. You can’t prove me wrong, I can’t prove myself right. Hence philosophical.
If you can't prove yourself right, you're wrong by default. Onus of proof and all that. For someone so interested in philosophy you sure have a poor understanding of it.
Is this going to be productive?
You’ve gone so far bro you’ve accidentally came out for the other side. My sister is trans, this isn’t up for debate it’s a fact. She also had genetic testing done and she’s completely normal to her birth gender. She now has no actual proof beyond how she feels and believes. Does that mean she’s wrong because of onus of proof and all that?
Not every Christian group places too much importance on the Bible. I was raised catholic and we were actively discouraged from reading it, lol. That’s not better, but it is insulation against the laws for how to treat your slaves
The Bible explicitly says in black and white that God hates gender-nonconforming people. Ditto that Christians need to shun gay men.
Cool that this church chooses to disregard their own religion to be inclusive, but I'm too old to do that kind of mental gymnastics any more.
I understand this is sarcasm but you should add a /s just in case lmao
It's not sarcasm. The bible says (not just the old testament, but the New testament as well) that homosexuals won't enter the kingdom of God, etc. Throw out the entire religion.
Pretty sure it never explicitly states this in either testaments. This link is my interpretation of those very vague passages people use to say this
https://www.hrc.org/resources/what-does-the-bible-say-about-homosexuality
Sorry I can’t remember how to embed the link.
Citation needed.
I mean it's all make believe anyway but I don't recall the Bible actually condemning homosexuality. It condemns perversion, as in molestation or sexual assault, but doesn't say anything about homosexuality to my knowledge.
You need to look again, because it absolutely does. Or do you think, "if a man lies with another man," was just talking about best buds sleeping in the same bed.
edit: I guess people are too lazy to look themselves for something that's already common knowledge..
But it's Leviticus 20:13.
I'm not going to engage too heavily in an online religious discussion, but as with most things it really is more complicated than that. Many, many Christians acknowledge these parts of the Bible while still being LGBTQ affirming. In brief terms there's a very good case these passages largely are speaking of some kind of sexual abuse, or the use of sexual activity as an act of worship.
If you can filter your mind of centuries of homophobic biblical rhetoric and biased translations, it's surprising how little there is to read on the subject.
Yes and they are hypocrites.
It's amazing the mental gymnastics Christians will do to justify their hateful beliefs.
I feel like you're contradicting yourself there, you're saying the affirming Christians are hypocrites and hateful?
How is that contradictory? I didn't say all Christians are hypocrites, just the ones that pick and choose what verses are convenient for them. Westboro Baptist seems to adhere pretty closely.
Christianity itself is a hateful ideology. Many people pick some of those hateful things when they walk past on the buffett line. Those people are both hateful and hypocritical.
I'm saying to either do it the way it says you have to do it, or stop wasting your time.
After all, God did say not to be lukewarm Christians, and if you are, he will "spew you from his mouth"
I mostly agree, with the exception of thinking that Christianity is hateful (though some of course try their best to show otherwise), but if you're saying it's hypocritical to interpret the bible as not being against homosexuality I think you're drastically oversimplifying. That part was the only thing I was looking to discuss.
Leviticus 20:13 is very clear. What makes you think you can just ignore that part?
Affirming Christians don't ignore it, but they also don't need to treat it as a commandment as you seem to. If you read the start of the chapter, it's talking about practices done by neighbouring communities as they worship their own gods. The instruction here is essentially to the Israelites to make themselves separate from that. It's relevant to the time and their geography and it is not a code of sexual ethics. Furthermore, even though it's easy to call it very clear, the verse you cite is not even talking about regular gay sex, and certainly not gay sex in a loving relationship. It's referring to likely abusive gay sex with teenage boys.
Believing what I've just said is not an act of hypocracy, at worst it's a well meaning misinterpretation. If someone were to pick and choose as you say, and be fine with tattoos (also covered in this section) but use this verse to be against homosexuality then that is hypocracy.
I'm well aware of the apologetics. Whatever mental gymnastics you have to do, friend. Maybe one day you'll be free of the constant cognitive dissonance. It's a huge relief.
It's ironic who turned out to be the hateful one here. I'm sorry your church upbringing sucked. Mine did too.
What was hateful about what I said?
We've got Christians on the verge of genocide in the name of your God, but I'm "hateful" for pointing out that they're just following their holy book?
Cite the whole passages, friend. If you're going to argue your point, bring the receipts and let people discuss. You're making the claims...
In case you didn't see the other replies, Leviticus 20:13:
Seems pretty black and white to me.
LEVITICUS 20:13, fwiw.
Well super easy to verify. Can you cite the verse where it says this?
Someone else pointed out it's Leviticus 20:13. Fair! It should be noted though that passage was to Moses about Jewish law as it goes on to talk about not eating unclean animals, etc... which is generally ignored by Christians but your point stands
"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
So according to the bible , homosexuals and effeminate people cannot enter heaven, that sounds like condemning to me...
The bible also makes clear that judging others is a ticket to hell, as only yhwh is to have that power.
If you try to live by copying the morality of a book on fairytales, you'll have a bad time.
Jesus said that, and Jesus (the white one anyway) is just a mascot.
Paul is who matters, and he judged the living shit out of everybody within correspondence range.
True. Edit: I like to clarify that I define this strictly to God hating people having sex with another of the same biological sex.
Logically speaking, it doesn't follow. It's equally valid to hold the opinion that "while God hates gender-nonconforming people, I am not supposed to punish them for it." In fact a famous example to that effect is John 7:53–8:11: "let him who is without sin, cast the first stone". Practically-speaking, that line of thinking (that Christians need to shun gay men and similar ideas, that is) had dire consequences in the form of witch trials. There, they used the Christian prohibition on witchcraft to purge societies of social outcasts and undesirables who are most probably not witches.
Sharing an article that argues against Christians shunning gays: https://theconversation.com/using-the-bible-against-lgbtq-people-is-an-abuse-of-scripture-110128
Paul would disagree.
Paul can get fucked
Tell that to Christians. They venerate him and all of his bigotry.
Not all of us. I consider him a great candidate for Antichrist.
Which sect cause some would also say fuck paul.
Which ones reject the books of the Bible written by Paul?