168
submitted 2 days ago by Naive@lemmy.world to c/asklemmy@lemmy.world

I was once talking with one of my classmates and he said that in the future, there will be universal basic income implemented by entire world. I was not convinced at that time and thought he is just being stupid but given the layoffs happening and massive amount of unemployment, I am thinking about this possibility. What do you say?

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] Zorque@lemmy.world 41 points 2 days ago

UBI is a bandaid to keep capitalism propped up by neo-liberals. It's contingent on the idea that society is dependent on people spending money, rather than getting essential services and enough free time to maintain mental stability.

[-] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 5 points 2 days ago

It makes working voluntary but still incentivized, whereas without something like that, someone needs to force people to do the jobs that provide those essential services. People will volunteer doing fun things for their local community, but generally no further.

[-] bdot@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

nah. there’s people out there whose favourite thing is to do the niche “yucky” or tedious things, but they can’t, because they had to get a job in marketing, or work in retail because they needed ANY job just so they could survive.

[-] isleepinahammock 4 points 1 day ago

nah. there’s people out there whose favourite thing is to do the niche “yucky” or tedious things, but they can’t, because they had to get a job in marketing, or work in retail because they needed ANY job just so they could survive.

This is one of those ideas that only makes sense at the surface level and fails at the slightest bit of scrutiny. Yes, it is technically correct that any job out there will have some nonzero number of people who would do it just because they want to. But that's no way to run a civilization.

That system only works if there just by random coincidence happens to be a perfect match between the jobs people want to do and the jobs that need doing. Are there are a few weirdos that would wade waist-deep in literal shit to clean out sewers for free, just because they enjoy it? It's a big world and people are weird, so there probably are a few people out there like that. Are there enough of those rare weirdos to keep all our sewers operating? Highly unlikely.

I know your system would fail because we have clear evidence from our own economy that there is a major mismatch between the jobs people want and the jobs that need doing. Look at every job out there that attracts people who want to do the job for its own sake. Look at university teaching, for instance. Universities can get away with having classes taught by poorly paid adjuncts because lots of people would like to teach university courses. There are far more potential university lecturers out there than the number of lecturers universities can actually support. Universities can pay their adjuncts a pittance, and they still have people sign up to teach classes. The low adjunct pay problem would disappear tomorrow if people simply stopped taking adjunct teaching jobs.

Look around to nearly any field that people go into primarily out of passion. They nearly all pay a pittance. "Let people choose whatever job they want" simply isn't a viable way of running an economy. Everyone wants to teach kids or care for puppies. No one wants to clean out sewers.

You always have to have some way of getting people to work jobs that they wouldn't choose voluntarily. There are simply things that need to be done for society to function that not many people want to do. In a capitalist system, this is done by offering higher wages for positions few people want. In socialist systems, this looks like offering more perks like better housing to unwanted jobs (pay by another name.) But you're trying to hand waive away an unavoidable problem by dismissing it as, "no worries, people will just do what they want and things will work out!"

[-] bdot@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Universities can get away with having classes taught by poorly paid adjuncts because lots of people would like to teach university courses

that's because those jobs come with pensions and job security. if a UBI was in place, then jobs like that would have no choice, but to offer more money. same with the undesirable jobs like cleaning sewers. can't fill it? offer more money. this is why farmers have to rely on migrant workers, because they simply can't pay enough

[-] isleepinahammock 1 points 19 hours ago

You think adjunct teaching comes with job security and pensions?

You are completely and utterly unqualified to participate in any discussion whatsoever involving labor issues of any kind. You lack the prerequisite background knowledge.

[-] bdot@lemmy.world 1 points 19 hours ago

oof. interesting assumption about me!

[-] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 day ago

Yes, I'm sure plenty of people actually wanted to become plumbers, farmers or construction workers, but had to settle for a job in marketing or such because that was all they could find.

[-] bdot@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

i think you get my point, though. during the pandemic, the garden centres emptied out, because people wanted to grow their own food.

[-] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 day ago

Growing your own food isn't the same as growing food for 10,000 people at all. My family's been growing a portion of our own food all my life, don't think any of us wants to work 12+ hour days in the fields in the summer.

[-] bdot@lemmy.world 1 points 19 hours ago

plenty of people find satisfaction from doing that sort of thing. i know i do. problem is - i just can’t afford the risk of devoting all of time to that right now, because there’s no guarantee for my financial security.

i also make my own maple syrup, and keep bees. would raise chickens, if my local bylaws weren’t so outdated.

and i never claimed that I would be doing it for 10K people. where’d ya get that number from?

[-] Zorque@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

Yeah, I mean it's not like a lot of those services are already populated by people who are underpaid and overworked because they love what they do and love helping people...

[-] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 day ago

You mean people who got the jobs they could get and would prefer not working those jobs if they could get away with it. Trust me, a lot of people working physically demanding jobs don't do it because of their enjoyment of wrecking their own bodies.

[-] gandalf_der_13te@feddit.org 2 points 1 day ago

rather than getting essential services

UBI says income, not money. resources and services provided to you would still be income.

[-] jesusactuallyhateshorses@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Brought to you by Carl's Jr.

this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2026
168 points (100.0% liked)

Ask Lemmy

41087 readers
1396 users here now

A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions


Rules: (interactive)


1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, toxicity and dog-whistling are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them


2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?


3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.


4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either !asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world or !asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com. NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].


5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.


6) No US Politics.
Please don't post about current US Politics. If you need to do this, try !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world or !uspolitics@lemmy.world


7) No Hit-and-Run questions.
Please don't delete your post for no apparent reason. If you plan on deleting a question later, say so in the post, or if you feel that you have a good reason to remove it, message a mod beforehand. It's not fair to the ones who took their time to answer, and it's not in the spirit of the community.


8) No Bots.
Posts or comments from bots, LLM's, AIs, Neural Networks, Transformers, or Marvin the Paranoid Android are not welcome in AskLemmy. Real humans only please.


Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.

Partnered Communities:

Tech Support

No Stupid Questions

You Should Know

Reddit

Jokes

Ask Ouija


Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu


founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS