183
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] Waryle@jlai.lu 1 points 1 day ago

Solar is the main source of interest, since it’s gotten so cheap. And solar is fundamentally a thin slice of silicon [...] In sum solar has no problematic elements, and the amounts involved are minor on the scale of large construction projects.

Solar needs silver, tellurium, indium, gallium, cadmium and other things. Silver is already close-ish to become scarce, tellurium and gallium are for most part a China world-wide monopoly. Rare earth elements are needed in inverters and power conversion, and lithium/cobalt/nickel are needed for batteries needed by solar to be viable without a reliable power source. All of that will be in competition with EV and other applications.

And nope, the amounts involved are not minor if we talk about all country phasing out of both nuclear and fossil.

The only thing relevant for pollution, oil use, cost, supply, … in the constituent resources are the batteries

Nope. I mean as of today, and for decades to come the highly globalized production will be entirely dependent on oil. No oil: no ore mining, no manufacturing, no transportation, no installation, and therefore no wind turbines and no solar panels. And that’s before we even get to batteries and the power grid.

So in a world where peak oil has already passed, the price of everything that relies heavily on globalization will keep rising, including solar panels and wind turbines. And let me remind you once again that we’re still only at the very beginning of solar and wind power: competition among countries hasn’t even started yet.

So you might say that without oil, we can’t build nuclear power plants either, and that’s true. Except that with, say, 1 million liters of oil, we can generate far more megawatts through nuclear power than through solar and wind, because it requires far fewer resources and far less reliance on globalization.

The main issue of current grid batteries is thus lithium. Which is environmentally problematic to refine, and is expensive, but is readily available and does not depend on oil to my knowledge.

It's entirely dependent on oil. Nothing get produced without oil, and oil will get costlier and scarce year after year.

Also, we would need most of the entire world lithium reserve just to convert our cars from oil to electricity. Powering entire countries with batteries, which necessitate magnitudes more storage, is just science-fiction.

And ofc there are many developments in battery tech. Lithium is not inherently necessary for all batteries, there will be alternate chemistries available not too far into the future. If you are thinking of building a nuclear plant now, then you need to consider what batteries you would need to buy in 10 years when it would be done, not which batteries are available now.

I mean, if I seriously start building gen II nuclear reactors in parallel, I'll have a dozen by 10-15 years, and have almost entirely decarbonated my electricity by 20-25 years with more than 50 reactors. That's feasible, France proved back in the 70-80's, humanity is not not dumber and less capable than then.

But again, you can't tell when/if you will ever find some storage technology that you can scale up to TWh for capacity, and GW worth of power input/output.

Loosely about 0.1% of current agricultural land.

Batteries are not up to scale and might never be, and you would need like 5 of the Europe biggest STEP to cover capacity, and 15+ for power output just for France's needs in a windless night in winter. We're talking about 60-70GW over 14h. And that's assuming you somehow have enough solar and water the next day to pump all the water back in 10h, to be prepared for the next night.

Also STEPs can't be built anywhere, it's highly dependent of the geography of the country. Some countries will need to rely on batteries exclusively, which again, are just plain science-fiction as of today.

Overprovisioning

Overprovisioning does nothing when sun is down and wind is missing over most of the continent, which will happen even more often due to climate change. Once again, just to hold a single windless night of winter in France, you'll need close to a TWh of storage capacity, and 60-70GW of power output. And that's without accounting for the remaining 2/3 of energy consumption that is still fossil-based and needs to be converted to electricity.

So yeah, you need a baseline of controllable power production AKA fossils, nuclear, or hydro. Fossils are out for obvious reasons, as well as biomass which is just Germany coping for its bad energy policies, and not all countries have access to hydroelectricity. So we need nuclear in the end.

this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2026
183 points (100.0% liked)

Science Memes

20983 readers
944 users here now

Welcome to c/science_memes @ Mander.xyz!

A place for majestic STEMLORD peacocking, as well as memes about the realities of working in a lab.



Rules

  1. Don't throw mud. Behave like an intellectual and remember the human.
  2. Keep it rooted (on topic).
  3. No spam.
  4. Infographics welcome, get schooled.


Research Committee

Other Mander Communities

Science and Research

Biology and Life Sciences

Physical Sciences

Humanities and Social Sciences

Practical and Applied Sciences

Memes

Miscellaneous

founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS