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submitted 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) by Mwa@thelemmy.club to c/lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world

Not OC, duh.

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[-] PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de 176 points 4 days ago

It's still a monopoly though. The misconception is that calling Valve a monopoly, is somehow an attack on Valve or blames Valve. It's just a description of Valve's position in the market.

Also, shame on whoever thinks Valve won't ever abuse this position at some point in the future.

Funny meme tho, just being pedantic

People call Valve a monopoly, and they are right but... is it a monopoly because they wanted to become one? Or because the competitors are completely clueless about what do the customers want? Can we blame Valve on becoming a monopoly when they simply are listening to the customers while the competitors (like Epic) keep ignoring users demands?

EA, Ubisoft, Microslop... they all tried to make their own launchers to move away from Steam and they all failed. Why? Because they wanted to make those launchers their way, while actively telling the users to shut up about their demands on what would make the launchers great.

Epic... Epic keeps throwing fortnite money to EGS launcher but keeps ignoring the most basic user demands.

Like, dude? I'm telling you that, for buying your product, it must have A, B and C. But, instead of offering me that, you make a product that lacks specifically A, B and C. And you expect me to buy it?

It is a monopoly, but because nobody else is even trying. And that pisses me off.

[-] theparadox@lemmy.world 22 points 4 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

I agree that Valve has, in some instances, succeeded primarily because they're not aggressively anti-consumer in a market of aggressively anti-consumer alternatives. However, they are not innocent by any means.

Last I checked, they are still automated when it comes to the majority of their "customer services". Getting an actual human to consider things is expensive and they don't want to spend money on that.

(Edit: Their solution to cleaning up their storefront is algorithms and crowd sourcing. The don't manually do much of anything to filter the selection - it's more algorithms, policies, and crowd sourcing reviews, tags, reports, etc. This prevents them from looking like they are actively controlling the storefront and is waaaay cheaper. They would much rather let influencers publish recommended lists for free than pay someone to find and remove asset flip garbage games. Systems like this are what gets you results like the opaque decision to ban Horses and financially devastate an indie studio without telling them why. It's what gets you massive review bombs from China cratering reviews for great games because Valve isn't willing to spend time working out an alternative method for Chinese gamers to communicate with game developers about games sold on their storefront - because typical feedback methods like discord are banned in China. Valve's solution is to just default to filtering out reviews made in languages other than your own, entirely.)

They are very conscious of the numbers behind their success and the money that their platform and marketplace rakes in. They have worked with literal economists when it comes to their marketplace. Yet they turn a blind eye to concerns like skin gambling with children.

They do sometimes behave like bullies when negotiating with those who want to sell their games on Steam. The proportion of money paid out to devs/publishers is a factor of success and benefit to valve rather than anything else - if your game makes a lot of money (for Valve), you get a discount on the percentage taken. Some of that bullying behavior is also anticompetitive - as has been brought up in lawsuits. Their policies use "most favored nation" clauses.

  • Basically if you want to benefit from Steam, the dominant marketplace, you have to offer Steam customers nothing less than you offer customers anywhere else. No discounts on another store or your website. No bonus content or service that might make a non-steam purchase feel better than a purchase on Steam.

Finally, they may not be anti-consumer but they haven't exactly been spending a lot of effort on improving the functionality of services that their platform has. The clearest example would be issues with their friends-related services like voice chat that have plagued the platform for a long time, though some have recently been improved. They know they are dominant and don't spend money when they don't need to in order to keep customers.

All said and done, I use them as my default though I've made efforts to be more dev and indie dev conscious. Unfortunately, greed fuels most of the world and makes it hard to do anything that favors anyone besides those with power.

[-] woelkchen@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago

Microslop… they all tried to make their own launchers to move away from Steam and they all failed.

Microsoft didn't fail. They bought Minecraft and Blizzard / Battle.net, two things that are money printers outside of Steam.

Microsoft ACTS like they fail because they demand higher profit margins from their gaming division to fund their AI investments.

Epic… Epic keeps throwing fortnite money to EGS launcher but keeps ignoring the most basic user demands.

EGS has an insane installed base because of Fortnite and Rocket League alone. League of Legends and Valorant are also available there but not Steam. Same with Genshin Impact and Honkai Impact.

It's just that these games drone out the other games on EGS and that's why they sell better on Steam. And what is that droning out usually called? A monopoly.

[-] brachiosaurus@mander.xyz 5 points 3 days ago

is it a monopoly because they wanted to become one?

Valve is a for profit company, one of their main goals is to make money.

It is a monopoly, but because nobody else is even trying. And that pisses me off.

It is a monopoly because they hooked everyone to their own proprietary third party software launcher, you should be pissed of about not owning any of your games

[-] woelkchen@lemmy.world 58 points 3 days ago

It’s still a monopoly though.

No, it is not. You and the other commentators need to stop repeating that propaganda lie by the true monopolists of PC gaming (Epic, Microsoft,…).

All of Steam combined makes up a fifth of the PC gaming revenue. A fifth! That's a very good percentage but a fifth of anything is not a monopoly and that's not even including mobile and consoles where Valve isn't even competing at the moment.

Fortnite, Rocket League, Valorant, League of Legends, Minecraft, still World of Warcraft, Roblox,… are where all that PC gaming revenue is concentrated but a few mid-tier games sell best on Steam (because the same priced copy on EGS offers worse value) and suddenly everybody keeps repeating the lie of the true monopolists that the company that isn't classified in the EU as a gatekeeper under the Digital Markets Act is a monopoly (but Microsoft is).

[-] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 7 points 3 days ago

I know you didn't make this graph, but what was whoever-it-was smoking when they put the line for VR all the way up there? It should be slithering along the bottom right like a snake.

[-] EldritchFeminity 8 points 3 days ago

You're misreading how the graph is laid out. The y axis is the combined total revenue of the entire video game market, with each new piece of the market being added on top of the older ones over time (although arguably arcades are the oldest form and should be below consoles). VR is the newest niche, and so it goes on top of everything else as it adds its revenue to the gross total of the entire market, despite only being a tiny piece of that sum.

In your layout, consoles/arcade would be at the top with everything else underneath them.

[-] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago

Even that don't make no sense, boss. If that were the case not only should consoles and arcades be swapped, as you say, but also the VR line should be slipped in between handhelds and mobile. Dactyl Nightmare came out in 1991 and certainly wasn't even the first VR experience, but it was the first commercialized one I can think of — and played myself, believe it or not. I can't imagine VR as a whole made anything other than chump change until 2018+, but it was indeed there and chugging along quietly.

[-] EldritchFeminity 4 points 3 days ago

I can't imagine VR as a whole made anything other than chump change until 2018+, but it was indeed there and chugging along quietly.

The graph specifically calls out the Oculus Rift as the start of what it considers the VR segment.

I would consider things like the Virtual Boy as VR to some extent as well, but I do see the logic as to why they only started the line with the Oculus. Before that it probably wouldn't even show up as the money there was a drop in the bucket of a tenth of a percent of anything else, but it's also widely considered that the Oculus and the Vive were the first really viable commercial VR headsets that started the VR game niche/genre. Before that, VR could probably be considered as niche as eye and head tracking hardware for sim games, and I don't think that I've ever heard somebody mention those when talking about money in the games industry. Or even mentioned them in general outside of conversations like this. I don't think most people even know that that kind of stuff even exists.

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[-] PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

~~Wait, a fifth? My bad, that's insane. I don't know a single PC gamer who doesn't have most of their games in Steam, me included. Can you hook me up with a source for that?~~

Turns out you are the one lying. Everything I find says Steam has 75% ish market share.

[-] EldritchFeminity 7 points 3 days ago

Where the hell are you getting your numbers? Everything I see says that Steam made a record 16 billion in 2025 while PC gaming as a whole made 43 billion. That would put Steam somewhere around 27% of the PC market.

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/gamesindustrybiz-presents-the-year-in-numbers-2025-year-in-review

https://www.eteknix.com/steams-revenue-surpasses-16-billion-in-2025-new-estimate-shows/

[-] stray@pawb.social 2 points 3 days ago

I think the 75% number may be accurate specifically for PC game distribution, not PC game revenue. 75% is the number Gemini gives as Steams's/Valve's market share when Googled.

https://www.quantumrun.com/consulting/steam-game-statistics/

[-] woelkchen@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

I think the 75% number may be accurate specifically for PC game distribution, not PC game revenue.

If that's the case, free to play games like Fortnite wouldn’t even count despite competing for the same wallets and play time as pay to play games. This also completely ignores the installed base of EGS but that is the second important thing when judging a monopoly.

In a hypothetical scenario where 100 million people have both Steam and EGS installed and fully set up and then 75 million of those people choose to buy where they get better value for their money, Steam would not have a monopoly in this case because all 100 million people have both stores installed and set up. Linking Steam and Epic accounts is possible since many years and there are no hurdles at online matchmaking between Steam and EGS users – Epic themselves provide proof for that in their delisted Steam version of Rocket League.

[-] PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 3 days ago

https://discuss.tchncs.de/comment/25526042

I posted some sources here. I might be misinterpreting how that number is arrived at?

[-] woelkchen@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

Turns out you are the one lying.

You are obviously completely unaware about the concept of citing sources. I did not make that graphic and you did not care to follow the cited sources at the bottom of the graphic.

At the very worst you could accuse me of citing a source that's 2.5 years old by now because its newest numbers are from late 2023 but then you made up random numbers without even backing up any of it, so my standpoint is still more valid than yours even if the numbers cited by me are not as recent as the numbers cited by @EldritchFemininity@lemmy.blahaj.zone

[-] PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 3 days ago

The "source" is just a name, I was hoping for a link. Again every source I find says 75%.

https://zipdo.co/steam-gaming-industry-statistics/

https://coopboardgames.com/statistics/epic-games-store-vs-steam-market-share/

I'm open to being proven wrong

[-] brachiosaurus@mander.xyz 2 points 3 days ago

You are on lemmy, a decentralized and open source platform, nobody here think microsoft is good. If a bunch of evil corporations control the entire videogames market that still count as a monopoly, all of these are shit including Valve.

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[-] InFerNo@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 days ago

Damn, handheld virtually nonexistent since 2020

[-] JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago

Only because they don't count the Switch as handheld. Nintendo was pretty much the entire handheld market.

[-] woelkchen@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

Only because they don’t count the Switch as handheld. Nintendo was pretty much the entire handheld market.

I don't know what would be left by how they lay out the numbers. Switch (2) is console, Steam Deck is PC. The Chinese "boutique" handhelds by Ayaneo, Ayn,... use existing game ecosystems (either PC or Android).

I guess Playdate and whatever Atari sells these days. Can't think of any other dedicated handheld with its own ecosystem.

[-] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

Microtransaction-laden cell phone games very infamously oozed in and ate that entire market's lunch. It turns out for short duration video game adjacent distraction on the go, people would much rather use the device they already have with a "free" (only up front) option rather than pay for a Gameboy/DS/PSP and games to go with it.

Square discovered this the hard way when they tried to release their various Final Fantasy remakes on smartphones in the early days as if they were regular games, i.e. pay $4.99 or whatever and have access to it in theoretical perpetuity and to the nearest decimal point, no one bought any of them. It turns out consumers respond much more positively to downloading a game for "free" and then coughing up several times more in microtransactions over time than buying any given title outright would cost, and/or being incessantly bombarded with ads as they play. Obviously the industry has figured this out and now everything you can play on your cell phone is feemium pay-to-win microtransaction hell built around slot machine mechanics, but it doesn't matter because it apparently prints money.

[-] JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 1 points 21 hours ago

It would have helped if they did a better job on the port.

[-] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 33 points 4 days ago

The term monopoly does not apply here. Not only do we lack any evidence of anti-competitive practices, there literally are competitors, they just suck and they are very unpopular.

[-] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 18 points 4 days ago

A monopoly [...] is a market in which one person or company is the only supplier of a particular good or service[1]. A monopoly is characterized by a lack of economic competition to produce a particular thing, a lack of viable substitute goods, and the possibility of a high monopoly price well above the seller's marginal cost that leads to a high monopoly profit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly

A monopoly is just an observation of the market landscape. Doesnt require ill intent or anti-competitive practices. Steam is just a benevolent monopoly. Until its not...

[-] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 19 points 4 days ago

There is competition. And the term "monopolize" is used as a way of saying someone took action to stomp out the competition so I would say that 99% of people would assume intent whether or not it's technically a part of the definition, because 99% of the time a monopoly exists it's not by accident. But again, importantly, there IS competition.

[-] woelkchen@lemmy.world 13 points 3 days ago

A monopoly […] is a market in which one person or company is the only supplier of a particular good or service

So like Epic in case of Unreal Engine and Microsoft in case of Windows. Steam makes up a fifth of all PC gaming revenue and EGS has a wide installed based because of Fortnite, Rocket League etc. People just choose not to spend their money there for games that are available elsewhere. That's different from EGS not being able from supplying goods and services because they were pushed out.

[-] arrow74@lemmy.zip 4 points 3 days ago

I think the issue is there is the economic concept of monopoly and there is the type of monopoly defined and banned by regulation. They are similar but not the same

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[-] hayvan@piefed.world 26 points 3 days ago

The meme I hate is "Valve wins by doing nothing". You cannot be any further from the truth. Valve has won so far by doing many things right, they keep doing many things right. It's like IT or maintenance work, or being God, your work is invisible until everyone dies.

[-] SCmSTR 6 points 3 days ago

Don't be a bastard, and do the right thing. That's hard to do apparently.

[-] selokichtli@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Will they? Probably. The thing is the others already did, and they even tried to hurt Valve in bad faith. The meme is good, but they took their shots at Valve before shooting themselves in their faces. I just hope GOG wakes the fuck up with Linux support, so I can buy more from them.

[-] lime@feddit.nu 9 points 4 days ago

is steam really over 95% of the market? i think that's where the limit is

[-] woelkchen@lemmy.world 13 points 3 days ago

is steam really over 95% of the market? i think that’s where the limit is

No, 8.6 billion out of 45 billion dollars. That's a fifth.

[-] lime@feddit.nu 4 points 3 days ago

well... that's it then. case closed.

[-] PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

That's the entire gaming market. Steam commands 75% of PC gaming.

Edit: Okay it's not the entire gaming market but I can't find any sources that agree with 20%, only 75%

[-] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 2 points 3 days ago

The entire gaming market is closer to 200 billion on that graph.

[-] PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 3 days ago

I don't really know where they got one fifth from, look it up and you will find three quarters.

[-] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 2 points 3 days ago

PC was 43 billion dollars in sales in 2025, Steam was about 17 or 18 billion. The graph up this thread was an earlier year where Steam's market share was smaller. Neither figure is 75%.

Gaming as a whole was 200 billion in sales last year. Half of it was mobile.

[-] bountygiver@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 days ago

No, 8.6 billion out of 45 billion dollars. That’s a fifth.

The graphic literally says PC games revenue is $45 billion. What are you getting at?

[-] PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 3 days ago

Every statistic I can find says that Steam had 74% market share in 2025

[-] JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago

Even at 100% of PC gaming, that would be a small part of video games in general. A bit disingenuous to call that a monopoly.

[-] PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

It's 75%. It's not crazy far up on the monopoly scale, but IMO enough to be called one.

But there is no "limit". If you are the only vegetable seller on the market, you have 100% market share. But as long as anyone else can set up another shop and compete equally, I wouldn't call it a monopoly.

[-] lime@feddit.nu 1 points 3 days ago

courts tend to use a percentage limit to define what is and is not a monopoly. the law specifies that anything below 50% of the market can not be a monopoly, and the chart shows that they're below that. making it about pc gaming in particular i believe would narrow the scope enough that the courts wouldn't care.

[-] Mwa@thelemmy.club 8 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

agreed, i will just hope they dont abuse the monopoly like Google or Microsoft. (this will be wishful thinking)

[-] mecen@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 days ago

But it is still the best launcher on market all others are crap especially epic. And despite being dominating player it still didn't abuse this power, meanwhile you hear only bad things about other launchers, delisting your games, insane telemetry, lack of reviews etc.

I hate most of other launchers not because they are bad but because they are required for playing some games: rockstar etc.

Gog found good niche in DRM free games which is great.

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