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Real meat vs Beyond meat
(lemmy.world)
Round 1: grilled
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this post was submitted on 14 Aug 2023
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Imo impossible meat is superior to beyond although nutritionally it’s a mixed bag. It introduces a decent amount of carbs (9g per 4oz) and has over 5x the sodium of beef. But it also has a bit of fiber and a either comparable or more vitamin/mineral content than beef. Protein is comparable to 80% ground with 20% less caloric content
Beyond is similar.
They’re both basically vegetable proteins with binders and fats and some flavorings. The big game changer flavoring is leghemoglobin which both use. It’s a protein isolated from soy that is very similar to certain enzymes from bovine muscle. Impossible got the fda to approve it in 2019 and it was challenged; there are some concerns on whether it is safe to eat. I’m not super well read on the issue but from what I’ve perused the issue is one of a lack of long term testing and not of any direct concern.
The textural difference between the two is because beyond uses isolated pea protein, which gives it a texture that’s a bit chunkier and imo more sausage like, and impossible uses soy protein, which imo is more like a cheap burger patty you’d get at McDonald’s.
The fats are typical fats like coconut oil or sunflower oil to recreate the fatty part of beef and this is the current weakness of the products imo. Coconut oil is used because it tends to stay solidified at room temp so when you’re making patties it feels like there are chunks of beef fat. In practice this is weird because they are far too hard and aren’t dispersed enough throughout the product; I believe this is why these fake meats tend to stick to the pan much easier than actual burgers cooked in a skillet.
The binders are big scary words like methylcellulose which is also a source of fiber and can be used as a laxative so people latch onto that and freak out. But it’s only used as a binder to help it hold everything together here so it’s like a tiny amount that just provides a bit of fiber that you probably desperately need if you’re having burgers for dinner. Fun fact: Certain preparations of methylcellulose (a4c) turn into gels when heated so you can use them to make hot ice cream! It’s pretty weird to eat, like a normal ice cream base that solidifies when you put it into boiling water
The other ingredients are stuff like beet juice for coloring
Final fun fact: technically impossible meat is not vegan because animal testing was done during its development.
Thanks for reading my unprompted essay on the composition of modern vegan meat substitutes. This was brought to you by my failed interest in becoming a food scientist. Also you may note I don’t really discuss how they compare to meat and that’s because I don’t eat meat which by law I am required to mention in all posts about food
The meat alternatives will only get better as time goes on and market demand grows. A burger or nugget is really not an impossible (lol) to recreate item; most of the meat texture is lost by the processing involved.
A burger is obviously ground and a nugget is usually chicken that’s ground to almost a paste then shaped and breaded. At that point it’s finding something that can approximate the texture of the mushed up meat goo and then finding something that can convincingly flavor it. That’s why impossible was so adamant to get leghemoglobin cleared by the fda, it really is by far the best option. If not that your other options are basically trying to recreate a “meaty flavor” with spice blends and msg which is how the older meat alternatives worked
The much bigger challenge is finding something that can texturally approximate intact muscle (eg wings or steak). As you’ve said there are decent soy wings and there are steak strip things and such but these are generally passable. They taste good and are fine as a meal but they aren’t the same in the way an impossible burger is reallllly close to a burger. Lots of people trying though! Jackfruit, tvp, seitan, pea and soy protein, etc. but none of them come close to the mouth feel and texture of a wing or steak. Someday, maybe. I hope someone figures it out; I haven’t had meat in like 20 years or so but I do miss the texture of steak from time to time and wish I had something that could recreate that
Not as experienced as you, but I find ground meats can be substituted out no problem. I've got jackfruit, soy, and mushroom alternatives on the menu that all have specific niches, but can still work across the board.
My current testing is sausages. Breakfast ones in particular make a large part of my diet, so I'm hoping to find off the self instead of making them.
Only thing stopping me from buying Impossible over beef is the cost. Soon as it's comparable in price I have no problem switching.
No idea where in the world you are but in the US there’s a chain Grocery Outlet that I often find both Beyond and Impossible for like half off and it’s great
I upvoted your post 1/2 way through just for the sheer effort of information. (and did continue reading, I just have nothing of value to add)
Seems like an absolute process. I'm not a vegan but it's nice you guys have options when you're craving a burger. I can't wait until that lab grown meat hits the markets.
Honestly I think Beyond Meat/Impossible style burgers are aimed at meat eaters who want to reduce animal cruelty/their carbon footprint. It's actually kind of annoying they're so popular now, as restaurants that used to have creative vegan options now sell Beyond Meat as the only choice.
Vegans don't tend to care if a veggie burger is "realistic". Some find the idea of meat gross and don't want to roleplay eating it (my wife says they make her feel sick). Even if you don't mind, the longer you give up meat the less interesting it is as a flavor. I'd take one of those shitty frozen veggie burgers that are 90% potato over an Impossible burger.
If I ever go vegetarian I'd definitely just enjoy stuff like falafels, curries, halloumi and the million other options and not worry about reproducing meat.
Even if you don't mind, the longer you give up meat the less interesting it is as a flavor.
I think there's a curve to this.
When I first became vegetarian there were no fake meat options. If you got something that looked or tasted like meat it was because there was meat in it. Gross and nobody wanted that.
But after 20+ years being vegetarian, it's REALLY nice to have some other options. I still enjoy a garden burger or black bean burger if it's the only non-meat option but I can't remember the last time I bought it in the store. The rise in popularity of vegetarian foods and all the fad diets have made it so there's tons of options now.
My meat eating friends all love both Beyond and Impossible. A few actually prefer it to a standard burger.
Now if we can just teach restaurants how to cook them properly...
I get impossible burgers often and can confirm. Not vegetarian, but I've massively reduced red meat consumption and impossible/beyond really hits the spot when I want a burger. It's an option at tons of restaurants now which is amazing. I also get 10 packs of impossible burgers at costco for like $10, honestly incredible deal.
I mean a nice portobello grilled up is a great alternative without the hassle.
A grilled portabella is better than any veggie burger I've had, and better than most beef burgers too.
Also between a industrial processed food and something like a falafel I would go for the second every time.
I'm curious, I've never cooked with Impossible meat before, is the "meat" just already salted/seasoned well? When I make a burger I definitely add quite a bit of salt while cooking, wondering if that sodium is just it being pre-seasoned or if that's before a (needed) good pinch of salt
It’s probably from the yeast extract which is part of the heme
To be clear tho it still doesn’t have all that much salt. It’s more that raw beef just barely has any. Both impossible meat and raw beef pale in comparison to the salt content of the final burger, where the sodium content skyrockets from things like ketchup, pickles, seasoning the patty during cooking, the salt content of the bun, etc
And imo you should still salt/pepper an impossible patty after formation. As mentioned, while the salt content is higher, it’s still not terribly high, and imo it benefits from a bit more. In my experience it’s not like meat and you can salt whenever you want (whereas with beef you generally want to salt patties absolutely last minute to avoid giving the meat a lightly cured texture)
Oh yes it does have enough salt to stand on its own. I never add salt to either Beyond or Impossible brands. I might add other seasoning if I'm trying to hit a flavor profile (liquid smoke, cajun spices, curry, etc).
You can just plop it out as-is and it'll cook up nicely. Just don't squish all the liquid out of it. I've had some nasty versions because people get away with poor cooking skills with reql meat and these don't tolerate the same abuses.
How do you know someone is a vegetarian? Don't worry, they'll tell you.
Just kidding, most vegetarians I know are really cool and non-judgmental about others' eating habits. I've actually reduced my meat intake just by hanging out with a vegetarian friend that always went out of their way to make me something with meat when we ate together, and to return the favor I would always make vegetarian dishes when they ate at my place. And then I just sort of got into the challenge of making tasty veggie dishes! I would say I've halved my meat consumption over the last year because of it.
This was very fascinating. Do you work in the industry?
I wanted to very badly but then life happened and now I have a whole other career!
I still cook a lot though and I have a lot of weird powders and additives and machinery for stuff. I have a whole ass refrigerated centrifuge that can spin 3 liters at a time so I can isolate my own pea and soy protein in quantity! It weighs like 350 pounds and it’s from the 80s but fuck it, it’s super cool and I was able to get it for $25 from a lab I interned at. I can’t make soy leghemoglobin at home though at there’s no commercial supplier I’ve found so far so I have to still buy impossible or beyond meat if I want it, bummer
Hopefully there will be more food nerds on lemmy. I am only an amateur food nerd, there are way better ones out there
I hope to see more of your essay comments on food posts in the future. This is the kind of engagement I live for.
Man that's so cool. Have you tried cooking anything else with it (if you can't make patty)? Also is there any interesting reading material you could recommend me?
You can basically use it any way you would use ground beef, bolognese, meatballs, curry, tacos, whatever
Read on food and cooking by McGee and ratio by ruhlman to start
Oh, also one more question, is pea protein nutritionally equivalent to ground beef or would you start missing something if you treated it that way?
Pea/soy protein itself as they’re just isolated proteins isn’t but the full product impossible/beyond is pretty comparable
Thanks for the interesting write up.
Why are you required by law to say you don't eat meat?
It was a bad joke
I think it’s a joke based on the stereotype of vegans being very outspoken about it.
Yeah, unlike the totally non-disgusting way meat is processed
https://is.gd/bVN2Op
Absolutely, I am a complete idiot. I pointed out to you that a simple & obvious search results in multiple definitions & examples of how meat is processed. I thought that would result in you understanding that meat is, in fact, processed. In hindsight, that was extremely stupid of me and I feel very dumb.
What defines ultra processed? Are chicken nuggets ultra processed if I simply purée a chicken breast, add salt, shape, bread, and fry? I’ve turned it into something that is completely irrelevant to its original form. Is sausage ultra processed because I added nitrates? Is nitrate free sausage not ultra processed because I used the loophole where I added celery juice for its natural nitrate content instead of adding them directly?
When exactly does it become ultra processed? When a chemist gets involved and gives things proper names that freak you out?
Are you one of the kooky types that freak out when they see “sodium stearoyl lactylate” on the label of their sandwich bread even though it’s safe to eat and objectively makes your bread better and last longer? If so I’m sorry that you insist on eating bread that is not as soft and goes stale in 2 days
unlike the not disgusting animal farming process: https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23817808/pig-farm-investigation-feedback-immunity-feces-intestines
Methylcellulose is also used as an egg white substitute in vegan cocktails! It foams up in a very similar way to egg whites and has little.to no effect on the flavor. It's often prepared as a syrup to make portioning easier as you only need small amounts to achieve the foaming effect
It’s an excellent foaming agent! Methocel f50 foams will last a lot longer than egg foams too
Just make sure you get the right kind though. Usually if you get “methylcellulose” it’s f50 but there are a lot of different types with different properties. The a4c variety I mentioned for hot ice cream will make foams but won’t work as well and is better for gel applications. But there are a lot of varieties of methocel and many are only subtly different from each other
Wonder if they can use it for firefighting foam instead of PFOAs.
Alternately, I wonder how good of a foam PFOAs will give my cocktail.