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this post was submitted on 04 Mar 2026
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That‘s the main problem in Europe as well. I don‘t mind tariffs on heavily subsidized cars that are designed not to make profit but to destroy our industries. However, even then our manufacturers are in a constant crisis mode and unable to adapt. It‘s really pathetic.
But hey, when the car lobby is dead maybe that means more trains and cycling paths in the long run? Perhaps there‘s an opportunity here.
It’s all thanks to Germany though. They are the ones who have succeeded in scrapping the bill to ban new ICE vehicle sales after 2035
Canada did the same thing. We also got rid of the carbon levy.
Isn't profit supposed to bring prices down?
Looks like crapitalists are scared to shit of free market competition.
Are the subsidies specifically for destroying foreign markets? (😈MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!)
Maybe, maybe not. I'm not a huge fan of the Chinese government, but I don't think their subsidies program are intended to directly destroy foreign markets so much as put the country at the forefront of development and production... which can be perceived as the above.
In depth study of the Chinese GreenTech subsidy system.
As the study goes into in depth, tax credits are just one part of the system. There's also direct subsidies(funding) for R&D, which is understandably very expensive, and below market value land sales among other things. In 2019 China put the equivalent of 1.73% of their GDP into industrial support, with below market land sales being a substantial portion of that. Next highest on the graphic is Korea at 0.67% GDP equivalent.
Moving away from the subsidies thing.
(Found this out awhile ago when I was watching a video on how actually ridiculous the whole US - Greenland thing was.)
China has ~90% of the rare earth refinement capacity. Even if Trump wants/wanted Greenland for it's resources, it would be over a decade to spin up enough refinement infrastructure to process whatever they would hypothetically extract.
China has invested HEAVILY in the entire supply chain from resource extraction to final product for a wide swath of GreenTech. When a lot of the rest of the world has switched from a majority production/export to majority consumption/import economy, or focused on soft products/research/etc of course they would see a country flooding their markets with products as adversarial. Regardless of if those foreign products are superior. Especially if the government of said foreign country is often interfering in political processes, intimidating other countries citizens, setting up extra judicial secret police networks in many countries, economic coercion....etc etc etc.
I'm not entirely convinced that the subsidy system is malicious, but the CCP isn't above playing dirty. So I can fully understand the common reaction being that it is.
While I’m positive they are playing dirty in many ways, the fundamental difference is they saw a long term transition, welcomed it, guided it. Whereas us sees a long term transition, pulls our head into our shell, holds on tighter to old ways of doing things, keeps focussing shorter and shorter term. Whatever China may be doing to “cheat”, it really seems like this is mostly self-inflicted
That's one of the advantages of having a single party in power for a very long time, I don't think China qualifies as a proper dictatorship, but it shares the advantage of the ability to plan decades in advance. The US is hobbled by the 4-8 year cycle of the next person totally erasing all the work of the previous. So there's an incentive for whoever is in power to keep the status quo and keep any changes small enough or "bipartisan" enough that the next person doesn't repeal it.
I wouldn't necessarily say that from what's visible outside the information confines of the CCP is cheating. They have a well defined goal, and no sight of the end of party rule means they can effectively do whatever they want to achieve it.
I do have to say I’m skeptical of all the claims that they are subsidizing industry and this is a problem. They are. In the open. And that’s normal. I have yet to read a convincing story that they are doing this enough to be substantially different from every other country. And being consistent over multiple years is clearly not cheating
Chinese companies have a deserved reputation for industrial espionage and not respecting intellectual property. I haven’t read complaints recently so does that mean they’ve cleaned up their act?
I mean, the claims as I understand them, is that the government is subsidising these EVs and Solar-PV etc. to the point where they are being sold below cost of manufacturing. Making any competition next to impossible in any countries where parts supply chains are more costly than in China. Not sure I believe that to the extent claimed, but they definitely are, very clearly and without hiding it, heavily subsidising these industries. Without someone smarter with numbers than me and very trustworthy looking at the actual flow of money from the government to these companies? There's no way to actually know what is in fact happening.
I’ve read the same but am skeptical because no one ever pulls out any numbers. I know every country does that same thing to some extent so just saying they do it doesn’t mean anything.
I’ll believe it when I see actual data
It’s also not necessary for the current reality to have happened. Following the K.I.S.S. principal, the current Chinese car industry is explainable by consistent government policy over many years, out in the open, so why are we blaming it on things we don’t o ow or don’t see? I’m not saying it’s not there, just that we’d be in the same boat whether it is or not
Well said! That's basically exactly my thoughts on the issue.
in 2023, Tesla released all the specs to move EVs to a 48V architecture to Detroit, saving a tremendous amount of wiring and eliminating the need for most sub systems and secondary computers. Detroit just ignored it, until 2026, and now Ford invented 48V architecture.