this post was submitted on 12 Aug 2023
1706 points (100.0% liked)
Fuck Cars
11272 readers
271 users here now
A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!
Rules
1. Be Civil
You may not agree on ideas, but please do not be needlessly rude or insulting to other people in this community.
2. No hate speech
Don't discriminate or disparage people on the basis of sex, gender, race, ethnicity, nationality, religion, or sexuality.
3. Don't harass people
Don't follow people you disagree with into multiple threads or into PMs to insult, disparage, or otherwise attack them. And certainly don't doxx any non-public figures.
4. Stay on topic
This community is about cars, their externalities in society, car-dependency, and solutions to these.
5. No reposts
Do not repost content that has already been posted in this community.
Moderator discretion will be used to judge reports with regard to the above rules.
Posting Guidelines
In the absence of a flair system on lemmy yet, let’s try to make it easier to scan through posts by type in here by using tags:
- [meta] for discussions/suggestions about this community itself
- [article] for news articles
- [blog] for any blog-style content
- [video] for video resources
- [academic] for academic studies and sources
- [discussion] for text post questions, rants, and/or discussions
- [meme] for memes
- [image] for any non-meme images
- [misc] for anything that doesn’t fall cleanly into any of the other categories
Recommended communities:
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
I'd wager a sizeable number of half-ton pickup trucks are used solely as people movers, i.e. the bed and towing capabilities aren't utilized. In many countries, trade workers more than manage with light vehicles, like kei trucks in Japan, so I think they'd work for the average weekend warrior too.
What always gets me is how shitty pick-ups are at transporting things.
A percussionist I know has a double cab van, I think it's a Ford transit. It can haul 3 timpani, a drum, tubular bells, a bass drum and other smaller stuff all in one trip. And then it still has space for 5 people. Try doing that with a pick-up.
As a bass player, a VW Touran can fit two double basses and two people. Can't do that in a pick-up.
Those are roughly the same size as a 150 though, aren't they?
Why is a behemoth of a van OK, but an equal sized pickup isn't?
Because pick-ups are truly unfit for purpose unless the purpose is to increase your confidence and sense of safety on the road. We are always gonna need utility vehicles for specific purposes. A percussionist is not hauling drums on the train.
You could easily do what you said with a pickup with a canopy though, while still having the towing and off road capabilities.
Show me how you transport a ton of gravel in your car please (and remember, a ton is more than the towing capacity of the vast majority of cars, so no cheating!)
The places around me will deliver it for quite cheap so the uh, 2 times in my life I need that I'll just do that?
How often does the average person haul tons of earthen materials around?
In my case multiple times a year... plus construction material, furniture, motorcycles... In the end I need to haul heavy shit multiple times a month.
Yet, people would take pictures of my SUV and call me an idiot with no respect for driving a big vehicle... With a 4 cylinders that has a fuel consumption that's the same (or better) as AWD cars that these same people don't criticize???
All highway, 8.2L/100km, mixed, 9.5L/100km.
AWD cars with similar power (so mostly V6) are higher than that, even more so if I include towing capacity in the comparison.
What's the car?
Volvo XC60
Just do a little bit of research into the fuel efficiency of various sized vehicles, the correlation is not direct and some larger vehicles get better gas mileage than smaller vehicles strictly due to efficiency. A small inefficient motor and a large efficient motor may yield the same mpg, but the large efficient motor is extracting more power from the same fuel source. And that's not even getting into diesel versus gasoline.....
Most of your fuel use goes towards overcoming aerodynamic drag, especially at highway speed.
You were talking about weight.
Once again, most of your fuel, especially at speed, goes towards overcoming aerodynamic drag. A heavy vehicle with good health aerodynamics will get better efficiency than a light one with poor aerodynamics.
I think its fair if people call you an idiot for buying an SUV to haul shit - there are far better vehicles for the job.
Yes, better drive a truck instead of taking my trailer with me just when it's necessary, so I take more space and have worse fuel economy 👍
I mean with reasoning skills like that I'm not sure you should be qualified to drive either of those things lol
I was ridiculing your logic but whatever 🤷
"Haha i was only pretending to be retarded"
What? Are you so obtuse that you couldn't detect the sarcasm when I said it would be a better idea to listen to you and to drive a truck so I would take more space and burn more gas? Are you fucking serious now?
Yes, they really are that dumb.
And what do they use to deliver it?
Professional delivery truck with a lifting bed to slide the earth off the back easily wherever you ask them to
A specialized vehicle, not a crappy pickup truck
Never a pickup truck, that's for sure. Usually a tilt bed truck in my experience. Not something you'd generally want to drive unless you're moving gravel.
I have a small trailer. Towing capacity of my 2003 Subaru WRX is 1500 lbs. So I guess two trips? Truth be told, that's why I have the trailer. For when I need to move a decent volume of random crap for work.
I don't think the people here are complaining about pickups when used for work, but they are shit vehicles for daily driving. And, this is my personal opinion, crew cabs are usually not utilized to transport workers. More than not, I expect they are because they think they'll take the family or kids in it. Even then they usually drive without any passengers.
I get that a lot of workers don't want to have two vehicles, but pickups are not good daily drivers.
Two words: commercial van. Seriously, they’re great.
Can you forklift a pallet from the side? Nope the tub design doesn't allow it unless you have a tray design.
Can you load a large ladder on it? No ladder/timber rack.
Is it good off-road? Perhaps, but the tub design over the rear tyres and back bumper make the departure angle poor, you'll need rock sliders or a lift.
I think I'll stick to wagons and vans.
You can put a roof rack on almost any vehicle, just BTW.
Pickups are just worse vans.
Can't fit an ATV in a van, and no I won't use a trailer because I'm already using one. Trucks have their uses because vans don't have an open top.
Seriously discussion here always feels impossible. They're sitting shit taking the truck while in a Euro city with great public transit. BOTH are unnecessary with the right context.
There are many things you can't fit in a van. There are many things that fit in a van, but don't fit in a pickup truck.
Generally, a van fits more things, takes up less spacs, has a better visibility, are more efficient and don't look ridiculous.
And yes, believe it or not, there are vans that fit ATVs.
That's a good way to get run over by an ATV in a crash.
Yes, in both pickup trucks and vans.
Let's ignore that people have been using vans in Europe to haul heavy things for years. Let's ignore that you can strap things down to the railing inside the van Let's ignore the protective barrier between the driver and the cargo space.
10/10 argument.
I have driven a van with a cargo barrier, it was rated for 90KG. Do you know how heavy an ATV is? More than that.
The lashing points would also tear out in a big enough impact.
You're talking shit.
I don't care enough about towing ATVs, listing all possible vans, or you to continue this conversation.
All I know that, at least in Europe, we've gotten around fine for decades without pickups, and everyone in a pickup is assumed to be a knob or an american.
Probably don't have many ATVs either.
Do many trades genuinely work out of Kei trucks? I feel a lot of people here don't understand just how tiny they are.