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I don't understand the difference between Libertarian and Anarchist
(lemmy.dbzer0.com)
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this post was submitted on 07 Aug 2023
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libertarianism
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An open, user owned community for the general disscussion of the libertarian philosophy.
- Libertarianism is the belief that each person has the right to live his life as he chooses so long as he respects the equal rights of others.
- Libertarians defend each person’s right to life, liberty, and property.
- In the libertarian view, voluntary agreement is the gold standard of human relationships.
- If there is no good reason to forbid something (a good reason being that it violates the rights of others), it should be allowed.
- Force should be reserved for prohibiting or punishing those who themselves use force.
Most people live their own lives by that code of ethics. Libertarians believe that that code should be applied consistently, even to the actions of governments, which should be restricted to protecting people from violations of their rights. Governments should not use their powers to censor speech, conscript the young, prohibit voluntary exchanges, steal or “redistribute” property, or interfere in the lives of individuals who are otherwise minding their own business.
Source: https://www.libertarianism.org/essays/what-is-libertarianism
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Please adhere to the rules here. Generally any types of posts are allowed if they stay constructive or add some value to the discusion. Your post is a primitive rant that contributes few and is just annoying. You were probably reported for this reason, which makes this a first warning. If you continue to behave in a similar manner, your post will be deleted consequently.
What did I tell ya? Libertarians: 'some gods, some masters'.
Anyway I was just answering OPs question, sport!
Brainless huh? Want to try addressing any of the points I raised or nah?
Dorks.
Why delete the comment when you can let the marketplace of ideas decide?
The answer is because the idea of libertarianism isn't worth much.
Baseless rant, sure if you don't know the meaning of words. Probably reported by a libertarian.
I kid! You wanna know something nice about libertarians? They always let you know who they are so you can have a chance to duck out of the conversation before the brain rot sets in. That's swell!
I don't have anything against your opinion but I have something against your behaviour. This is not a place to call people names and behave like a 12 year old. You can write whatever you want but please stay constructive. If this is impossible for you consider finding another community that somehow better suits you needs.
Most civil lemmy moderator award goes to you. No joke. Keep up the great work.
Thanks man! This is indeed better ;) Also apologies for the harsh comment of mine. I just don't wan't this place to become a hostile, unfriendly place just like the Reddit community did. But I also never would censor anybody because of his opinion.
(Responding to your edit) yeah no worries about harshness. You're in a tough situation, moderating a community for a political philosophy that seems (to me) to attract passionate responses for and against that philosophy. It would be eaiser to moderate a more well-liked community or idea such as "breathing". Hard to get people who will hate that idea - or at least people who will hate it for very long.
Indeed it's very tricky to find the right balance between moderation and free speech. Thats why I only step in when the tone of the discussions gets unconstructive. Other than that everybody has their own opinion abouy the right political philosophy and who am I to judge them?
Sure, this is your opinion. Could you please elaborate what political system you think solves these issues?
Its less about me talking to you and more me airing my grievences with the political philosophy in general. I find libertarianism to be a stepping stone philosophy usually taken on by people who are just getting into politics. It's a nice idea, rought speaking that "people don't deserve the social programs we are giving them, many abuse the system, and we are in debt and we must focus on building a viable economy by tackling debt and moving to make money represent something as it used to back when the US had the gold standard." Unfortunately that philosophy takes a misstep out the gates with the assumption that social services aren't needed, and the assumption that decreasing social services somehow makes it easier to run an economy. I find the whole philosophy to be taken up largely by folks who haven't needed social programs themselves.
I got the government to pay for 2 years of my schooling, through a dislocated worker program when I was laid off at my job. This allowed me to get a degree, which I used to get a 6 figure salary and now pay back in the form of property and income taxes. These taxes then go to fund other social programs which can sometimes create more tax revenue by lifting others out of poverty or otherwise making higher education more accessible. For what it's worth, I vote democrat in the US because it's the only viable option - a vote in any other direction, without grassroot support is a wasted vote. Ideally, I would vote for the party that most perfectly aligns with my values, but there is no party like this in the US, not at least one with a real chance of winning.
Libertarianism also suffers from having a clear definition. I think the one I tried to give in this comment is in good faith but I recognize it is incomplete. You have libertarians who just don't want to fund social programs ranging from libertarians who beleive all taxation is theft to libertarians who beleive that we should abolish drivers licenses. The best antidote to that would be common sense but this isn't available as a political party, at least not in the US.
Right now the best the US has to offer is the democratic party, and while it has more to offer non billionaires than the republican party, most leftists in the US (myself included) would rather vote for a truly leftist party, believing the democrats to be more center-right these days than the increasingly-far-right republican party. The overton window sure be sliding right.
I am also not an anarchist, nor do I know much about anarchy. I do know it's less structured tha. The beliefs held by libertarians but I don't know if that says much.
I really enjoyed reading this. I prefer political philosophies that try to logically explain why they do what and where they draw their lines. What I don't like is the notion of whitnessing a problem and then trying to solve it by adding regulation wcomparing it to the bigger picture.
Regulation is just enforcement of rules. We make rules to regulate parts of our country which are out of control. Inherently, regulation isn't a bad thing. The problem is that money buys regulation, which means successful industries get to write their own rules. I'd say then that the problem is money in politics, but then there's a bit of an issue: for a US party to be successful enough to be on the ballot, they need to raise enough funds. Money then goes to buy speech and therefore thoughts, hearts and minds. Most of AM radio in the US is paid for by right wing actors. Lots of successful right wing social media influencers moved to the right because the right pays more than the left. In the end, everyone needs money to survive and #yolo so might as well live comfortably. It's understandable but not excusable in my opinion.
I am assuming you're a libertarian given your choice to moderate this community, but I might not be correct in that assumption. Would you mind explaining why you chose that philosophy (or if I'm wrong, then why choose whatever philosophy you choose)? I am curious what you mean by "draw their lines", since we are talking ultimately about choosing a philosophy to be governed under. I am able bodied and have a good job, but this may not last forever. I cannot keep up with the rat race of capitalism forever, and I may end up with broken bones from an auto accident where I was not at fault, unemployed, reliant on social programs because my only other option is homelessness. I truly truly hope that if and when that time comes, the current governing philosophy will have not "drawn me outside of the lines" that they beleive in. This is my major gripe about libertarianism.. just because you don't need things now doesn't mean you won't later, and that people don't need them now.
OK, let's start from the beginning. Basically, there are two notions of how to approach a political system. Either you go to one extreme and say "basically everything is forbidden but every individual has (positive) rights that should ensure his freedom". On the other hand, you can also say "basically everything is allowed but your rights can be restricted by the (negative) rights of others" (see positive and negative rights).
I would argue that most modern societies try to achieve an ideal balance between freedom and regulation. Libertarianism seeks to maximise the freedom of each individual and minimise restrictions. In other words, it is not against regulations, but tries to achieve its goal by means of them. However, these rules should be as minimal and basic as possible, without redundancy and unnecessary burdens that could somehow hinder people. How exactly this balance between regulation and freedom should look and where exactly one draws the line for the extent of regulations ultimately depends on the interpretation of each individual.
Personally, I am a strong advocate of the logical approach in law and politics. The laws should be an unambiguous, logically coherent and broad foundation on which one can trace back every action as far as possible. The clearer and more minimal the law, the easier it should be to understand. I see this realised in the basic principles of natural law, the non-aggression principle or the self-ownership principle. I believe that all problems can be broken down to a few basic principles, from climate change to property damage or theft.
In my opinion, a (minimal) state is needed to enforce these rules and thus protect freedom. To do this, you have to give up some of your competences to the state, which reduces your own freedom to a certain extent but ensures stable and maximum social freedom (if everyone were maximally free, they could also take away each other's freedom). In a way, you could describe me as an effective freedom altruist.
But what exactly this minimal legal basis should look like is difficult to say and can only be found through trial and error. Therefore, with every action I take and every decision I make in my everyday life, I work for a change that is directed towards this libertarian vision, and thus I also try to test and adapt these theses again and again. Sustainable change will never be achieved through a radical leap or the demands that follow, but through a step-by-step approach to it. Without a clear final goal or a final vision, however, it is not possible to indicate a direction and the effort is lost in the turmoil of political and social discourse.
In this sense, I do not want to explain to you what is right or wrong, but rather motivate you to find and explore your own vision. I have made my vision from a libertarian point of view but as I said it depends on how you see it. Good luck on your path!