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Tesla reintroduces 'Mad Max' Full Self-Driving mode that breaks speed limits
(www.engadget.com)
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this post was submitted on 18 Oct 2025
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FSD as it is currently with human supervision is 10x safer than driving without FSD. Source Tesla 2025 Q2 report vs reports from NHTSA.
Edit: some time in and I’ve only gotten ~~ad hominem responses~~ insults and downvotes. Please make a convincing argument that I’m wrong or maybe realize you’re just downvoting facts you don’t like if you don’t bring your own.
Edit: non Tesla source showing only two fatalities over all FSD miles, no matter what number you come up with for miles with FSD even at 10% of Teslas reported numbers it’s safer than a human.
tesladeaths.com
uhhhhhhh
Those are financial documents if they’re lying and you can prove it sue them and make some money lol
UHHHHHHHH
This conversation isn’t productive. Agree to disagree have a nice day.
Edit: lol still downvoting me while you never provided your “easy to find” video showing FSD is easily fooled. Downvotes and mocking don’t make a good argument.
lol now i gotta actually go back and downvote you
Hey, dummy.
Thank you for the source! I agree that Tesla should’ve halted FSD and went all in on ensuring FSD sees and stops for busses, this is dangerous and mishandled.
My original claim wasn’t that FSD or Tesla is perfect, just already safer than humans.
Please note my below sources are from 2024 to get a full year and have data before the Trump administration. This means that the software is older and so doesn’t hit my 10x claim but does hit 5x. I’m confident 2025 will hit 10x. (And if we keep to my original claim being FSD specific, ie not including autopilot it is already at 10x.)
https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/nhtsa-estimates-39345-traffic-fatalities-2024
1.2 fatalities per 100 million miles
Tesla 2024 fleet size(yes a Tesla source but tesladeaths is not up to date on fleet size)
https://x.com/tesla_ai/status/1905644814483251709
2.16 billion miles 2024 Expected deaths 34
Actual deaths 6 (once again being favorable to the opposing view including autopilot deaths in this total. For comparison, even Tesla deaths.com only claims 2 fatalities involving the use of FSD use over all time)
https://www.tesladeaths.com/
(Would’ve used this source for fleet size miles as well but not updated since 2019)
I’ve used a basically entirely biased against Tesla source for deaths. With their numbers Tesla fsd is still multiple times safer than a human.
For the record, I could find no record of FSD actually hitting a child getting on a bus. It’s still a supervised system and human drivers are aware it doesn’t work with busses and take action to stop for the bus. The coming update does in fact now stop for busses so it is being addressed, albeit I agree not with the speed and seriousness such a miss should merit.
I’d rather have a system with a human and computer ensuring safety. Even if at the moment there are still for sure situations where the computer is far worse than a human, it being better in the majority of cases still makes it more safe to have than not have.
I only answered because I think you have a shit opinion.
I didn’t read your response and I probably won’t. Feel free to defend Musk more and pay attention to me less.
Bye!
I don’t like Elon and nothing in my comment was defending him.
Please at least admit that you lose the moral high ground when in a debate you admit to not reading the other view point at all and personally insult your opponent.
Lol.
You know what, you're right.
You know what has an even better safety track record than a car with FSD supervised by a human?
Trains.
If your concern is actually safety, advocate for the safest methods of transportation - mass public transit, coupled with pedestrian- and bicycle-safe roads, and advocate against passenger cars, in any form.
I would love walkable cities. I frequently bike to work you’ll get no disagreement from me there.
I can’t think of a less trustworthy source. Rolling a pile of dice with words on them is likely to tell the truth more often.
Fair enough. The NHTSA probe is for 2.9 million vehicles and 53 incidents. That is far below the level of incidents humans have over that span of vehicles for any appreciable level of drive time.
The same NHTSA that had its employees removed from these probes by the person being investigated?
Do you think a car that alerts you if you look away from the road and forces you to pay attention or you lose your ability to use the new features is less safe than a vehicle that is unaware if the driver is texting/sleeping or whatever?
What type of source would you trust on this? If you don’t trust NHTSA what is your basis for saying Tesla FSD is unsafe?
the safest thing to do, is to not drive at all! I never trusted humans anyways, with their strange motivations, and how inconsistent their behavior. its best if we let go and let the machines take us where they will
No disagreement that the safer option is not driving at all.
I don’t think a car driving itself where you tell it is giving up human self determination tho.
Do you think Tesla invented that concept? Also clearly the systems don’t work. There are literally pornographic films of people fucking in the back seat while nobody is driving.
I agree that it is incredibly harmful that we don’t have any scientific institutions that we can trust now that the Nazi ruined them. There is no replacement.
I never claimed that Tesla invented that system just stated that cars with it (teslas others) are safer than the majority of ones without.
Your second sentence is impossible with the way the system works, perhaps pornos aren’t good sources for accurate information?
If there’s no replacement for solid trustworthy data in your mind I don’t think this is a worthwhile conversation if you will trust literally no source.
Are you really rejecting reality? Just go on YouTube and you can find plenty of non-porn videos of people defeating the shitty attention system. I just chose porn as an example to show just how absurd your trust in Daddy Nazi’s lies is.
Four hours later that video wasn’t so easy to find was it?
You don’t even see just how unhinged you sound, do you? I was spending time with my friends. It’s the weekend. Honestly, how does a person become like this?
Share me a video of the current version 13.2.9 being easily tricked.
Or try this link from the government of Austin Link
It's not safer. I know because I've driven one. Not only does it make it easier to get distracted for just a moment, but also, you pay less attention to the surroundings, handling of the vehicle, situational awareness, etc. Because you know you don't "have to".
And when it makes mistakes (and it does quite often) you're less prepared to deal with it.
Now you're going to parrot "but you're supposed to be attentive at all times", and yes, you're right, but we're humans. And yes, you can absolutely extrapolate that FSD is less safe because of it, because it definitely puts the final safely measure on a weak part: us.
Adaptive cruise control plus some level of Lane assist is, in my experience, safer. You're still driving but you can relax your muscles, therefore allowing you to be less tired. More so if you have a manual transmission.
Anecdotal. I’ve also driven one and felt it safer. I didn’t lead with that in my post because anecdotes aren’t real evidence. Please share an actual study or report or information showing it’s more dangerous.
I agree right now is a weird in between as humans will keep looking at the road but may begin to daydream. But Austin with no one in the drivers seat shows were nearly past this in between.
I don't have stats, but my personal feeling is that car safety features trump full self driving.
Eg, you are actively driving (which ensures you are engaged and dont fall asleep, etc), but if the car sees something it can react (drifting out of lane, car slows down ahead of you, person walks in road, etc).
That seems so much safer in my opinion.
(That works for driving around town, ofc I think adaptive cruise control + the above safety features is safe for highways, etc)
For the moment absolutely, that’s why the system requires your attention and will lock you out of using it fairly quickly if you are distracted. Tesla drivers on FSD are forced by their car to pay attention to the road. Surely people can see how that alone makes it safer than all of the cars that don’t know their driver is texting or whatever in a car that can’t drive itself at all.
i've personally seen this not to be true and it's not hard to find videos verifying my position.
Could you please share a video showing this demonstrated on version 13.2.9? I will happily watch and admit you were right if you can find a video of the current version being easily tricked.
Edit: To anyone reading this comment in the future think about what is revealed when not only is a video provided but I’m downvoted for merely asking for it.
If it can ensure you are looking at the road, that sounds good.
Not sure if it seems as safe as you in full operation of the car for turns etc around town, but its a good safety feature to ensure you arent distracted.
Not only can it, it is a required part of FSD. You can not operate it without it making sure your eyes are on the road. Every source looking at actual incidents per mile driven shows that FSD (and Waymo and the others) is already safer than human drivers. I’d be happy to be proven wrong on that.
There are incidents. It’s not perfect, but right now that’s why humans must still be actively paying attention.
Bot found
Did you even look at my account/post history?
Yes.
Tesla autopilot performs better than humans per mile because it runs mostly on the freeway which has a far lower chance of accidents per mile than slower city areas which are more difficult to navigate.
So you admit I’m not a bot? A persistent chiefs fan is a real person.
I will if you retract your statement about Tesla being better than real drivers by using Tesla as a source.
I won’t retract my statement but I added a link to tesladeaths.com showing that FSD has only caused 2 fatalities over its entire lifetime of miles. Even at 1/10th of Tesla’s reported miles that’s safer than a human.
Neither of those deaths were the current software version either so currently FSD 13.2.9 has caused 0 fatalities.
Tesla lies about this stuff why would I trust them https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/florida-keys/article311553847.html
My source wasn’t Tesla.
And that very case found the driver, who was actively pressing the accelerator pedal while leaning below the dashboard grabbing his phone 2/3rds at fault.
Care to respond to my argument with reason or evidence and not resort to ad-hominem?
that wasn't an ad hominem, it was an insult
Calling me stupid is attacking my character in my view but sure I mislabeled it when it was an insult. Your point?
Again you’ve yet to actually debate my sources or provide your own. You may continue to insult me or mock me as much as you want but I’m not interested in a conversation without actual discussion of the facts.
are you sure? that seems to be far from the case, as you must get the last word in. now we're just teasing you for fun.