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We have made it, thanks everyone ^^
(lemmy.sidh.bzh)
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this post was submitted on 06 Aug 2023
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Sure. I'm sure Trinidad and Tobago, and Albania, are definitely Nazis. And those anarchists with their black and red flags, they're definitely Nazis too, right?
Seriously though, in this case, it's the unofficial war flag of Ukraine.
It was originally associated with the WWII nationalist Banderite movement, which has some dubious history but is important in the 20th century story of Ukrainian nationalism. However its usage has evolved and is used widely, albeit unofficially, in modern Ukraine, by lots of military-associated groups who have nothing to do with Nazis or fascism.
One of the main selling points of it is that it trolls people who uncritically believe that Ukraine is run by Nazis.
Literally what is being accomplished by this? I'm sure these people feel so incredibly owned by a Ukrainian nationalist flag.
Russians in positions of power have frequently said that Ukraine is an aberration, and doesn't actually exist at all as a national identity. So any Ukrainian symbol is an act of resistance to that.
Why use that particular flag? Well, why does anyone do any trolling? Because it feels good getting an emotional reaction out of other people. Because it feels good sticking it to those people who want you dead, or assimilated.
But also because it helps to figure out who isn't a fan of the concept of Ukrainian statehood. If the initial reaction towards a Ukrainian nationalist flag is that it's "Nazi" then that's a pretty strong signal.
I cant imagine why the flag of the fascist, ethnically cleansing Ukrainian Insurgent Army that is now used by far-right groups such as Right-Sector would be perceived as a Nazi symbol. The Ukrainian flag is the flag for Ukrainian statehood. This is the flag of Banderites (fascists).
This is like defending the use of a Swastika because it is also a Hindu symbol. Everyone knows this isnt about Trinidad, Tobago, Albania or Ancoms.
I defend the use of the swastika as a Hindu and Buddhist symbol... Also fuck Nazis.
Red and black flags are pretty common antifascist circles and with anarchists and some socialists. Pretty sure the flag here is not related to the upa since it includes the trident... Please school me verbosity if I'm mistaken?
Anyways the community flag is the NATO flag. See below 👇
https://sh.itjust.works/post/2283444
Again to be clear fuck Nazis, fascists and tankies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army
You can't possibly be serious and tell me that this is the ancom flag which a) the person I'm replying to already admitted is not the case and b) is bisected diagonally and not horizontally.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_symbolism
THIS red and black flag, not any colored flag. As you said, it is nazi. Why do you think it's used by military groups?
Also, "we are ironically Nazis" Sure
It's worked though, hasn't it? No one with half a gram of understanding of modern Ukraine thinks it's Nazi - nationalist, yes, but not Nazi - and yet there are several accounts on the thread who have taken that bait.
Finding Nazis everywhere is paranoia, and demeans the experience of the millions who suffered and died because of actual Nazis.
What about all the Ukrainians killed during the war and those who will be killed after on those unexploded runs? And guess what will happen after the war under that government since they probably won't resume fair elections
Ukraine is a great country, the current government isn't and is definitely fascist