1732
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 03 Aug 2023
1732 points (100.0% liked)
World News
38548 readers
2225 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Women in the US are doing that too.
I guess it works, to a point. If your man throws a Shapiro-esque fit over this movie he probably isn't great to be around the rest of the time.
His critique of it is basically that it's too "woke" but he really has nothing to say about the essential elements of any movie (plot, tone, character development, etc). He's either unable or unwilling to separate politics from his review. It's like he doesn't know movies can be well made even if you disagree with their themes.
If you ever have (unfortunately) heard of his absolutely dogshit book, then his inability to understand deeper meanings, subtext, themes, and to grapple with a competent plot should not surprise you in the least. Robert Evans, Cody Johnston, and Katy Stoll read it through on Behind The Bastards in a few episodes. Imagine the novelization of a Steven Seagal movie adaption of a Jack Ryan plotline. Combine that with how ol Benny really wanted, and failed, to be a screenplay writer, and it makes sense his absolute hatred for modern Hollywood movies that don't say all the things he likes.
One pump, one cream my friend. I loved those episodes and so many more.
I mean, I think it's fine to critique a movie on themes as well. It's a key aspect that makes up a film, like effects, writing, casting, or acting. I don't think critiquing it as "woke" is invalid - it tells his audience a key facet of what they want to know about a movie. If a movie was coming out and someone reviewed it saying the themes were pro-fascist, I'd also want to know that and not attend based off of theme.
I just like that a movie which, in no uncertain terms, advocated for strong, independent men is too "woke" for Ben Shapiro. But I guess if you determine your worth as a man by how much control you have over women, that tracks.
Fascism is an actual defined term. Woke isn't, it just means whatever the user wants it to mean, which is usually something like not wanting some minority group to exist.
Woke is a defined term.
The fact that it's mis-defined or used as a pejorative does not invalidate its definition nor mean it can't be used as a descriptor of a film. It's literally an adjective.
I think "woke" actually does have a definition, put forth by DeSantis's lawyers, IIRC. I don't want to go find it right now, but it was something along the lines of "aware of and acknowledging the existence of systematic racism in the United States."
But more broadly, these days it just means "progressive" without defining any specific arena, so personally, I think woke is a valid way to describe a movie. In fact, if a movie doesn't have at least some "woke" themes, I'm not too interested in seeing it these days.
"Woke" comes from AAVE meaning to be aware of racial prejudice. As in, "you woke up from a dream". It has a definition, it's just that most white people won't take the time to learn it.
"Woke" means whatever anyone wants it to mean at any time.
Or is the theme of the movie about awareness of systemic racism in the US justice system? Haven't seen it myself
Pretty sure he decided what he was going to say before he even saw the movie. He can't admit to liking any part of it becausee of his politics.
Both my wife and i wanted to go equally. I wanted to thirst on Ken and I did...but on the serious note, its a good movie for both genders to see for seperate but equal reasons. Barbie gotta stand up and step out, be herself. and Ken has to learn what it means to be Ken without Barbie. This movie would of helped me not be such an incel in my formative years.
Shapiro-esque is such an apt description.
The amount of concern a woman should have about their partner is directly related to the amount of Shapiro that is displayed when complaining about Barbie. I had a few parts I didn't like, but I still enjoyed the movie as a whole. I thought the car chase scenes were so unnecessary and terrible product placement.
The test isn't if someone dislikes the movie, it's why if they disliked the movie.
It's fine if someone thinks it was boring, poorly written, etc. It's a red flag if they go off on some misogynistic rant.
I bet that challenging some of the movie concepts would also be considered misogynistic. I mean if I think that there is no patriarchy in western civilization at present. That means I don’t agree with a feminist argument and therefore i must despise all women right? It’s the only logical conclusion you would reach “in good faith” 🙄
Edit: thanks for admitting it. I just wanted to make it clear to those who engaged in good faith with the argument.
It’s fun seeing the actual test the article is talking about playing out in real time.
This made me lol
Wait. Sorry, I'm trying to understand, are you saying you actually don't think patriarchy exists in the West?
I agree liberals will just be reactionary and any critique will be received in bad faith, same way if you're a Leftist and critique Democrats or Hillary Clinton then they think you're really a fascist mysogynist, but I'm not sure if that's what you meant.
Correct, if you don't think there is any patriarchy then you might be a shitlord.
It's not an issue of if there's any patriarchy, but that Universal and Mattel obviously limited how much the film makers could critique capitalism, corporatism, and this general issue of forced competitiveness (of which patriarchy is a symptom - make 10 people fight over 5 sticks, act surprised when whichever people end up grabbing the sticks first use them to leverage an advantage and beat down the others, and it eventually turns into things like patriarchy and white supremacy and class systems).
So instead the film has to pretend that patriarchy is the core issue, despite undermining that notion itself multiple times (eg. multiple powerless male characters in both worlds, Ken being unable to get a job, most of Gloria's grievances about being a woman being grievances many men share or basic human insecurities, etc.) The film even tries to lampshade some of its own shortcomings ("thanks, white saviour Barbie" and the line about Margot Robbie being the wrong casting choice).
Thematically, the film is a hot mess. It degenerates into bullshit twitter mottos and catchphrases from about 10 years ago and dance numbers instead of plot resolution.
If you're using this, of all movies, to "test" your boyfriends and partners - well a) testing your partners is not a great sign in itself, but also b) you may be an idiot.
If someone goes on some misogynistic rant then no, you should not date them.
Also if someone needs to test you and wants to goad someone into anything 'as a test' then you should not date them either.
Both the tester and the testee should not be in a relationship and need to do some growing up.
Bet they're the same type who only dates people according to what astrological sign they are 🤣
It must be fun going through life without critically thinking about anything.
Astrology is another litmus test to see if men will belittle you, so if your reaction to barbie is similar to your reaction to astrology then you'll probably be getting similar results.
Bringing up astrology on a date would be the dealbreaker for me. I don't want to date people who believe in stupid woo bullshit. I wouldn't belittle her for it, but there wouldn't be a second date.
not really. astrology is dumb doesn't matter the gender
What do you mean? I can't think of anything more stable than a grown man burning children's dolls on the internet after watching a movie based on a toy designed for 6-12 year old girls.
What do I do if my woman does that though?
Watch Oppenheimer, I guess?
I just wanted to know where Ken lived.
He's literally Beach Ken. Why doesn't he just live on the beach?
Either that or ::: spoiler spoiler move back into the Mojo Dojo Casa House since Barbie cleaned it up for him before immediately leaving to be a human. :::
🤣🤣🤣
I'm using that line
It can also work both ways, by seeing how she sees the corporate feminism thrown around by power-hungry corpos only for the profit. Luckily, my gf and I were sharing the same "yeah, it's still divisive and murican corpo trash" mentality about the movie, while both of us saying that it was "almost there"
How about a Shoe-esque fit? Lol. I kinda agree with her that if they were trying to make the patriarchy look bad, they failed hard. The Barbie's seemed to be having more fun in Ken Land. One of them even says as much.
Also there's no way that Mattel would be upset that the Ken Bro-House was outselling Barbi Dream house. They're making money, they'd have leaned into it, not tried to shut it down.
Barbie is an ad for a toy. It should not be engaged with as if it's sincere any more than you would an ad for sugary cereal.
Regarding this, I think the point the movie was trying to make was that Mattel could choose to eliminate the Barbie line of toys and use those resources to create a product for boys that would sell better, but they choose not to. Even though the board (both in the movie and in reality) is dominated by men and they are motivated by profit, they still want to make little girls happy. Of course, they want to make their profit along the way, but that's commentary on capitalism
You missed the point where they all lost agency and just became hollow husks of beings.
It wasn't meant to be super biased towards feminism. In my opinion it tries to show a very well balanced take and just show genderism in general, and uses it as a gateway for some men to understand what it could be like from the other side. The end loses some of it's nuance with going for a mostly status quo. But the rest of the movie is a great exploration of gender issues in general.