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submitted 10 hours ago by throws_lemy@lemmy.nz to c/fediverse@lemmy.world

Decentralized social network Mastodon says it can’t comply with Mississippi’s age verification law — the same law that saw rival Bluesky pull out of the state — because it doesn’t have the means to do so.

The social non-profit explains that Mastodon doesn’t track its users, which makes it difficult to enforce such legislation. Nor does it want to use IP address-based blocks, as those would unfairly impact people who were traveling, it says.

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[-] hisao@ani.social 95 points 9 hours ago

This is why it's perfect time to get some tech literacy regarding tor, i2p, yggdrasil, and shadowsocks. It's not perfect solution to use tech to circumvent restrictions that shouldn't be there in the first place, but sometimes it really comes to that point and it's really nice to have all systems ready!

[-] ezyryder@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 57 minutes ago

I'm making a website to aggregate all of this information. Pro net neutrality, anti censorship laymens guide. Still in the works but its called zoracle.life.

[-] chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 5 hours ago

I've tried a few times to check out i2p, it seems to take hours of leaving it running to even get to the point where you can very slowly and inconsistently load even the official pages though.

[-] hisao@ani.social 7 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

In my experience, if you have anything but "Network: OK" status (for example, "Network: Firewalled"), it's not working properly. If you're behind a VPN, you need to port-forward and properly configure a port in I2P config/settings. Another sign that it's misconfigured is 0 participating tunnels. This is how properly configured I2P network statistics looks like with high internet bandwidth:

spoiler

[-] chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 4 hours ago

Thanks. Somehow the network actually seems to be working pretty well for me now, not sure why it wasn't before.

[-] peoplebeproblems@midwest.social 60 points 9 hours ago

Arguably though, at some point they'll just say "if we can't read your traffic, you can't use the Internet."

Which still isn't a problem, as I'm sure we can come up with a means to encrypt traffic to make it look entirely legitimate. But it's going to take a while.

[-] einlander@lemmy.world 54 points 9 hours ago

At that point people would probably go to a p2p adhoc wireless meshnet to bypass the ISPs entirely.

[-] mitch@piefed.mitch.science 1 points 14 minutes ago

Meshtastic, baby!!

[-] piecat@lemmy.world 4 points 3 hours ago

All they have to do is send a few crews with log dipoles or yagis. Take a few operators down and charge them with terrorism or something and a critical mass will stop using it.

We have the tech for drones sweeping everything everywhere with sensors. Cameras, radios, microphones, IR...

[-] Revan343@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 hours ago

At some point you're just going to need to start shooting the fascists

[-] Jason2357@lemmy.ca 25 points 7 hours ago

Sneakernets, my friend. Never underestimate the bandwidth of a pocket full of microsd cards traveling on the subway.

[-] Soggy@lemmy.world 3 points 2 hours ago

Latency is horrific though.

[-] Trainguyrom@reddthat.com 8 points 2 hours ago

Flash drives of banned foreign films are the one method of accessing foreign media that north Koreans realistically have. It's extremely hard to prevent people plugging a flash drive into their computer in their home to view some media

[-] AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 35 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

You mean "at which point, people will just say 'oh, ok'". (Assuming they even notice)

[-] sexy_peach@feddit.org 33 points 8 hours ago

"People" will just comply. Tech savvy people like us are the only ones that could circumvent it

[-] cyborganism@piefed.ca 1 points 3 hours ago

Except we'll have to keep using it because the rest of our families and friends are going to still be on there or pester us about why we aren't there with them to share photos of your sister-in-law's baby photos and videos and your aunt Tammy's vacation photos.

[-] chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 6 hours ago

Except if the topic is wifi meshnets, no amount of tech savvyness will get you around an absence of other nodes nearby. General apathy is actually a huge problem here.

[-] Sl00k@programming.dev 2 points 3 hours ago

I used to think about this via mesh networks as simply routers, but now with nostr, IPFS, atProto and that new BT messaging stuff Jack Dorsey is on. Technically you could utilize your phone as an access point to the mesh network as you move around the city and load all the comms in the background. The latency would be high, but it could work. Also with 5g tech nowadays long range mesh networks are much more feasible albeit probably expensive for a hobbyist.

[-] chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 3 hours ago

Are there now legal means to do longer range communications? I thought the main limitation was you need to be licensed to do anything more than short range home wifi

[-] Trainguyrom@reddthat.com 3 points 2 hours ago

I mean it's all licensed by the frequency and antenna transmit power, so long distance is possible with the right choice of protocol, antenna and frequency you can get a surprisingly long distance with unlicensed spectrum. Ubiquity makes some directional antenna for wirelessly connecting 2 sites that operate in the 2.4 and 5ghz ranges that can connect over distances of multiple kilometers

[-] peoplebeproblems@midwest.social 16 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

One... Not so disappointing fact is that means at least the Internet will go back to the pre-social media era.

You can feel it here on Lemmy still. It exists.

[-] sexy_peach@feddit.org 7 points 7 hours ago

Yes it has its perks

[-] BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today 14 points 7 hours ago

I don't know literally ANYTHING, so take that into account when answering this, but why can't a single person access the "Internet" on their own, without an ISP. Can't they be their own ISP? Or can't small groups of people - friends, family, co-conspirators - create their own private ISP?

[-] russjr08@bitforged.space 15 points 7 hours ago

The p2p meshnet that they were referring to basically is a local/small group ISP.

As for why a single person cannot (effectively) become their own ISP? It's complicated. Really complicated. ISPs have to pay other ISPs just like you and I do, unless they're a Tier-1 ISP/Network. Otherwise you're always going to be paying to connect to (and generally paying for bandwidth) another network that has access to a network that then has access to a T1 network. T1s are basically the largest networks that hold (or can directly access) the majority of people on the internet. Top of the food chain, so to speak.

So in theory, yeah, you can become your own ISP - but you'll still need to pay and be at the mercy of other ISPs. Datacenters are typically their own ISP, but they have to pay others to get online just like we do.

[-] rollin@piefed.social 14 points 7 hours ago

this is what the mesh networks are that people have mentioned elsewhere in this thread.

It is theoretically possible to create a purely peer-to-peer network where each individual connects to people nearby, and then any individual can in theory communicate with any other, by passing data packets to nearby people on the network who then pass it on themselves until it reaches the other person.

You can probably already grasp a few of the issues here - confidentiality is a big one, and reliability is another. But in theory it could work, and the more people who take part in such networks, the more reliable they become.

[-] BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today 4 points 7 hours ago

But can they only access each other in their own "web?" Can they access the World-Wide Web on their private web? Or does that just expose them to all the other stuff anyway?

[-] rollin@piefed.social 8 points 7 hours ago

You can have nodes on a mesh network which act as gateways to the internet, but such nodes are going to have to go through an ISP. There's no other way to connect to the internet at large unfortunately.

[-] tyler@programming.dev 9 points 7 hours ago

Imagine the internet is a network of roads. The ISPs in some parts of town control the roads, in other parts they only control the stop lights. You can build your own road through private land to avoid the stop lights but it’s expensive. The isps can put traffic cops at the stop lights and monitor and stop you if they want. The only way to get around it is to build a road all the way to the destination.

[-] turmoil@feddit.org 7 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

To some degree you could, but you'd either rely on Tier1 transits to access the entire internet (costly), or you'd use IXPs (keeping your traffic local to other IX participants).

This doesn't account for how'd you'd actually go into purchasing a port for your residential home, which would probably entail laying your own fiber to a data center nearby.

[-] TeddE@lemmy.world 10 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

Like Metastatic on LoRA?

Or maybe we'll use software defined radios (SDR) to transmit on other unregulated bands (as a hacker, you can often force the software to believe it's in the wrong region to transmit on bands the FTC didn't approve, as long as it's legal somewhere.)

[-] errer@lemmy.world 2 points 5 hours ago

Meshtastic will never replicate anything like the modern internet. It’s slower than 1980s dialup data speeds. Text messaging, maybe…but you ain’t sending a video through it, that’s for sure.

[-] peoplebeproblems@midwest.social 4 points 8 hours ago

I didn't know there were unregulated bands. I thought pretty much everything except 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz required licensing and those two were technically unlicensed, but still regulated.

[-] TeddE@lemmy.world 4 points 7 hours ago

What's in a name? Legally speaking, your brain and nervous system would be classified as an 'unintentional radiator' (MRIs work because of this fact) and as such would fall under regulated devices if we weren't legal persons.

I used 'unregulated' (errantly if you insist) to mean both unlicensed and also use cases where FCC isn't actively enforcing the regulations on the books, cause technically virtually everything is 'regulated'.

[-] peoplebeproblems@midwest.social 4 points 6 hours ago

Ok, that makes sense. Thanks!

[-] peoplebeproblems@midwest.social 1 points 8 hours ago

That's probably a better idea. I haven't actually looked into how that works.

[-] hisao@ani.social 13 points 8 hours ago

If you mean an HTTPS ban, it’s technically possible, but even mainland China and Russia haven’t gone that far. One major reason is that it would completely undermine basic internet security. It would instantly make man-in-the-middle attacks trivial, letting anyone sniff purchases, transactions, and more. Buying anything online - or using a credit card at all - would suddenly become extremely risky.

[-] FailBetter@crust.piefed.social 6 points 6 hours ago

The situation does seem quite desperate. I'd like to heed your call. Please advise on most critical systems I should have ready right now today please. I know have a lot of work to do and must stay efficient

[-] hisao@ani.social 12 points 5 hours ago
  • If the internet were fully controlled, you’d need mesh networks - DIY, decentralized networks using radios, local connections, or other alternative infrastructures. I don’t know all the details, but Yggdrasil is a promising modern project that functions as an alternative “internet” for mesh networks, while also working over the regular internet.

  • Within the normal internet, the most resilient solution against heavy censorship is probably Shadowsocks. It’s widely used in mainland China because it can bypass full-scale DPI (deep packet inspection) by making traffic look like normal HTTPS. There are ways for authorities to detect it, and there are counter-methods, but it remains one of the most reliable tools for evading state-level traffic filtering.

  • Next in line are Tor and I2P. Both are very resilient, and blocking them completely is difficult. It’s a continuous cat-and-mouse game: governments block some bridges or entry nodes, but new ones appear, allowing users to reconnect.

  • Finally, regular VPNs are useful but generally less resilient. They’re the first target for legal restrictions and DPI filtering because their traffic patterns are easier to detect.


Overall, for deep censorship resistance, it’s a hierarchy: mesh networks > Shadowsocks > Tor/I2P > standard VPNs. You can ask chatbots about any of these and usually get accurate, practical advice because the technical principles are public knowledge.

[-] DFX4509B_2@lemmy.org 1 points 3 hours ago

Couldn't the US hypothetically put a clause in some 'online safety' law conveniently deanonymizing Tor given they own most of the exit nodes?

[-] hisao@ani.social 8 points 3 hours ago

Owning a lot of Tor exit nodes doesn’t automatically deanonymize users. Exit nodes only see the traffic as it leaves Tor toward the clearnet, not the original sender. To actually identify someone, you’d need to match their traffic entering the network with the traffic exiting - a correlation attack - which requires visibility on both ends. The US doesn’t “own most exits” either; the network is run by many independent operators, and the Tor community actively monitors for malicious relays. Even if a law forced US exit operators to log everything, that alone wouldn’t deanonymize anyone unless combined with large-scale surveillance of entry traffic, which is extremely resource-intensive and not guaranteed to work. In practice, governments can make running exits legally risky, but they can’t just legislate Tor anonymity away.

[-] ezyryder@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 hour ago

Governments also need regular users on Tor for it to function properly, otherwise it becomes easier to track down who is targeting you, most likely another government if they are the only ones with "legal" access.

[-] moseschrute@lemmy.world 6 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

I have absolutely no idea what any of that is after tor. I have heard of i2p but I forget

[-] hisao@ani.social 8 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)
  • Tor is optimized for accessing the regular internet anonymously. It uses onion routing with a small number of long-lived relays, and you exit back to the clearnet through an exit node. Hidden services (now called onion services) exist, but they’re secondary to Tor’s main use case.
  • I2P is designed primarily for internal services (called eepsites, torrents, chat, etc.) inside the I2P network itself. It doesn’t rely on exits the way Tor does. It uses garlic routing (a variant of onion routing with bundled messages), and every participant is both a client and a router, making it more peer-to-peer.
[-] irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 hours ago

Could you be responsible for what someone else does while your using the network then?

[-] hisao@ani.social 1 points 1 hour ago

Only if you're deliberately running an exit node (doing so requires special setup).

[-] irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 23 minutes ago
[-] hisao@ani.social 1 points 4 minutes ago

Pretty much impossible within I2P

[-] other_cat@lemmy.zip 1 points 6 hours ago

Me either, so I'm searching up what I can and bookmarking it to read later. There's always more to learn!

this post was submitted on 29 Aug 2025
517 points (100.0% liked)

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