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One group playing dress up has definitely hurt children
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 02 Aug 2023
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Link #3 is concerning, but not assault. That is a pedophile with CP.
Drag queens, and pretty much everyone else, have a substantially lower incidence rate of child assault than the clergy.
But if your point is literally trying to say "But 'most' isn't the same as 'all'!!1!!", yeah fine. Be happy with your technicality, and miss the point completely.
It isn't misinformation, you're simply making inferences that aren't inherent to the post you've read. Exactly what the post title and text says is true. You're either unable to cope with something like OCD (and therefore unable to accept the post as anything other than what you personally would consider ideal) or you're being obtuse in order to derail the post as much as you can. But really it just seems like you just need to maybe chill out a bit, have a chuckle or don't, and then move on.
Your indignation is probably religiously based, so you're automatically incapacitated to "look at reality objectively".
To me it seems that on lemmy (as it was/is in reddit) the majority of users is leaning more to one side (if not the extreme side) of the ideologies and people who try to be reasonable get quickly shut down for not fitting this or that narrative. That's sad in my opinion because all it's doing is replicating what used to be the norm on the opposite side of the spectrum and you can clearly see that most don't even notice it. For all intents and purposes they believe 100% that they are right and therefore no nuances are allowed, period. But you know, maybe the biggot is you for not accepting that last 1% of the current narrative... I feel I'm in the same boat as you though.
But you're not being logical. The meme title states that one group has definitely hurt children. That's simply a fact.
You then said: "But the way it’s worded is basically a claim into itself that the bottom group has NEVER…EVER harmed a child. Which, being an absolutist statement probably doesn’t hold water."
That's your non-factual interpretation of the statement. That's how you saw it and that wasn't based on any of the words contained in the title but what you thought they were trying to imply.
If you're going to claim you're solely interested in logic and fact then you really need to own that position.
The meme states that one group has hurt kids....and that's it. And that is a fact. One group has hurt kids. You're interpretation that the meme is saying only one group has hurt kids is just that - your interpretation. I'm asking you to look at the your statements that you are basing your opinion on logic and facts and weigh that against the exact wording of this meme. Factually, the meme states one group has hurt kids. It does not say only one group has hurt kids. The truth of that can be seen by simply coldly and logically reading the title of the post/meme.
But if you're now saying that facts and logic aren't the only thing that come into play here then I agree with you. In that case, we have to look at context and probability, neither of which can be factual as the data is scant. But it's also pretty reasonable, based on what we do have, that its accurate to refer to priests as a group that hurt kids. We can't really say that about drag artists.
I've answered elsewhere but I am being slightly disingenuous to try and make a point, I admit.
FWIW, you're not alone in your disappointment. I like Lemmy but critical thinking is in short supply.
So many of these instances are how folks come across, some are coarse and some not so much. Active voice, authoritative tone, and missing the vibe can really impact perception. Of course reality is highly nuanced, but low stake comment sections often aren't. Just my 2c.
Your correction reveals some kind of hatred, but that between you, your psychiatrist and your meds.
Searching with a microscope for any case that gives credence to a sick group of haters doesn't speak well of you, so I don't particularly care about being unflinchingly objective. You don't seem to be worth it.
And yet you equate individual actions with MASSIVE FUCKOFF EFFORTS by thousands of people, all over the world, for decades, to give priests the ability to rape children on the daily.
If you actually equate these things I suggest a therapist.
First link was a crime from 2022, which is before the data set started. But also, the perpetrator wasn't a drag queen. She was a pervert that liked dressing kids up in drag. That's a straight non-drag person being psycho: https://nypost.com/2023/04/25/mom-who-mentored-drag-queen-11-sentenced-for-child-sex-crimes/. Not a drag queen.
Your second link was a guy who read at drag story hour in 2018, and assaulted a kid before that. No indication that he ever did drag before he assaulted the kid.
And if you need to stretch back to 2018 to find something... which weren't even drag queens but were just tangentially related..., but only had to stretch back to last week to find a non-drag assaulter, are you really being honest? Or are you just trying to be correct?
Doesn't have to be after 2022. I was talking about that one website.
This is the first link you've provided that has a drag queen being an abuser. That one is horrible. Super bad. She should be punished.
More importantly, do you just... collect these? You got a weird kink my dude.
That explains the poor quality links.
I've followed that other site for a couple months. She's great on TikTok.
I claimed there were none on that site. This was accurate.
You should talk to someone about that need for pedantry. It shows a lack of understanding of how communication works. Maybe get a diagnosis. It will help. It helped me.
I tire of correcting you. Have a night!
They're an alt-right troll here to JAQ off.
Rather than admit that the other person was correct, you resort to ad hominem? This is exactly the insanity the other person is trying to fight.
Autism isn't an insult. It's a set of mental patterns. We can smell our own. It's not an attack, it's real advice.
Accuracy in statements that aren't yours, you mean.
You're playing the same disingenuous JAQoff games the alt-right does every single time they invade a forum.
Curious.
I can't see the top story as I'm in the EU but the second one committed offences in 2008. From what I can tell, the TikToker is only recording 'new' cases i.e. cases where offences occurred after she started doing this. The third one you should definitley tell her about. There's an email on her page.
I don't think anyone can realistically suggest that any group of people is 100% pedo-free. There are pedo priests, pedo cops, pedo mums, pedo traffic wardens etc etc so there is going to be a non-zero amount of drag artists that are pedos simply by virtue of the fact that pedos exist unfortunately.
I don't agree that the spirit of this meme is suggesting no drag artist has ever hurt a child and I think it's pretty fair to say, based on the data that does exist (poor quality though it is) that drag artists, as a group of people, are extremely low on the offending against kids front.
The arguments being used by some to suggest drag artists, as a group, are dangerous to kids (and I'm not suggesting you're one of the people doing this) could be applied to any group of people that come into contact with any other group of people. I mean, Dennis Rader used to be a census taker - does that mean census takers as a group are fair game to be treated as likely to murder people by torture?
Mate, I am totally not dog-piling you. I'm trying to be respectful but I would really like to know where the data is that led you to form the opinion that this is a numbers issue. Are you saying that if we had the data we'd see there'd be a roughly equal percentage of pedo priests as pedo drag artists?
I'm also not sure the meme is saying what you think it is. You seem to think it's saying only one group has hurt kids but it doesn't say that. It says that one group definitely have. i.e. that we know that priests definitely and in substantial numbers, hurt kids. It's not saying no drag artist has ever hurt a kid, but that, as a group, we can't say drag artists definitely hurt kids, whereas we clearly can say that about priests.
But, as I've said elsewhere in this thread, your argument hinges solely on how you personally interpret the title of this meme. All it says is that one group definitely hurt kids. That's simply factual. What you then did was assume the meme was saying 'the number of drag artists that have hurt kids is zero' and it doesn't make any such claim at all. It simply states one group has definitely hurt children.
When does a number of individuals become 'a group' I guess is the question. Maybe (and I fully accept this is solely my opinion) the meme is suggesting that as the number of kid hurting drag artists, although a non-zero number, is so very low it's hard to even class them as a group. When the word 'group' is used by the ultra conservatives and xtians it seems to me that what they're attempting is try and make out there's enough offending individuals to justify referring to them as a group in a way that makes them representative of the whole.
One of the people in one of your links for example - they offended in 2008 then later became a drag artist. Is that person really a pedo drag artist? Or are they a pedo who's realised that with the advent of drag artists reading stories to kids, becoming a drag artist was a good way to get access to kids, in the same way some pedos become teachers etc? We don't say teachers, as a group, are inherently pedo's or that pedo teachers are representative of teachers so why do it with drag artists?
I am, I admit, playing devils advocate a bit.
You keep saying how much you value logic and fact. I'm (disingenuously, I admit) pointing out to you that stripped of all context, the title of this meme simply states that one group has hurt kids and doesn't say only one group. It's literally factual to say that, but - as you say - not accurate because context matters, right?
I'm trying to get you to see that there's nuance and shades of grey that goes beyond facts and touches (as I said ages ago) on the spirit of the meme. (And really, it is just a meme, do they live and die by pure facts? Clearly not based on most of them).
I don't think anyone is claiming that there's a non-zero amount of drag artists who've hurt kids. But you saying 'both?' is not really taking account of various nuances and contexts, such as - is there even enough drag artists who've hurt kids to classify them as a group? Could it be that some of them were pedo's who, after offending and doing time and being released realised that glomming onto the drag artist community was a way to get close to kids now?
We don't factually know. That's why it's difficult to understand why you say 'both?' in a way that infers both are groups that represent their respective communities or are somehow equal.
I've only responded to you one other time here and let most of this go but this comment is absolutely heinous. "Runs equally"? That's just disgusting. Drag queens walk around with a target on their back for this kind of thing nowadays partially because of people playing devil's advocate or whatever this is that you're doing here. All three of the people in your stories were charged and fired, if employed. The church protects these clergymen from the consequences of their crimes and they're held in high regard, generally. The worst they have to worry about is kids cracking jokes they probably won't hear anyway. I don't care if you're an engineer or what your deal is but this comment is just problematic and your whole attitude isn't convincing me that you would be much better in a different context.