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It's super effective!
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this post was submitted on 21 Aug 2025
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Flippanarchy
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moving away is exactly the best approach, as it lessens the force of the impact. not to mention they are wearing a backpack, which might be able to fully absorb the impact of a baton depending on the contents.
No. Moving away is only ok if you really put some distance between the two, otherwise you're still within reach – it's a baton, not a fist or knife.
moving away by any amount lessens the force of the blow. this is elementary level physics, and your arguing it really shows the sorry state of American education.
In this specific case it's better to move in. Even better if the fist ends past your back.
If you want to see something funny, check the video I posted on this fight below. It’s from a different angle, a closer one.
No, you're flat out wrong, the bat is moving in a rotational motion and increasing in speed as it rotates because the wielder won't be putting any stopping force until they are past the point they intend to strike. This rotational motion, where the farthest point from the fulcrum (shoulder) has the most force. Meaning if you are in range, the farther out you are, the harder you get hit. You must be able to get out of range in order for backing away to be effective, otherwise you get hit harder.
You're only correct if it's thrown, and if you're this close, it won't make a difference.
I love the word fulcrum. I dont know what it means but it's beautiful :3
It's the bit in the center that holds up the teeter totter. The axis of rotation in a lever.
So your argument is that since it’s increasing velocity, the force given from its momentum is increasing, but decreasing that momentum by robbing it of some velocity does not decrease the force.
Does my summary of your argument sound correct to you?
Think about it as just a really long pole on a rotating shaft. The further you are away from the center of rotation the faster the pole is moving at that point. That's why really long swords are more powerful (though harder to wield) than shorter ones, even if they're the same mass. If you get hit by the tip of the sword it transfers a lot more energy than near the hilt.
Another way to think about it is it hurts a lot more to get hit by the fist when someone punches than if you get really close and are only hit by their shoulder.
It didn’t. The video of the riot in question that I posted shows that. Which is probably why they haven't replied to the thread since.
But even if it did, a hook is also rotational force, and boxers still roll away from it to avoid or lessen the blow. I think if that was the wrong thing to do, they would have stopped doing it several decades ago.
No, try reading the other 90% of my comment.
the rest of the comment totally misrepresented what was happening here. the protestor isn't backing away, they're moving downwards. the officer isn't swinging the baton, he's punching straight downwards with it because he didn't get a chance to swing.
now that you are up to speed, try again.
In the one picture we have of the officer before contact is made, you're saying they're punching with the baton when it's above their shoulder and to the side.
no, in the video of the protest, we see him punching downwards and not swinging. this happened in Chile in 2019. this is not the only angle of the fight either, there's a video that's close up within maybe 20 ft on the other side.
he immediately got up and the protestor did basically the same thing to him again before running off as more cops arrived.
Do share the link.
I couldn't find the link for this video, which is no wonder, because it's several years old and reddit has since deleted every version of it I could find hosted there. surprise, surprise.
I did manage to find the other angle though, but you'll have to make due with a facebook link, because that's all I got.
https://www.facebook.com/ChilenoPromedio2.0/videos/1337891916394316/
notice the cop that gets knocked down the second time is the same as the first.
By all means do try your "elementary physics" in real life, I beg you. Film it too if possible.
Not american btw, nor easily offended if that was the point.
I don't need to? boxing and MMA have existed for decades now, it's been recorded likely thousands of times by now. see my reply to the other guy.
in boxing, they call it rolling with the punches. even if you are hit, rolling with a punch lessens the blow of that punch when it connects.
That isn't how attacking with batons work. They come from the side because it's rotational, not linear. If they're stabbing at you, sure. But they aren't.
You don’t seem to have paid attention to the meme. The baton isn’t being swung.
How the fuck do you think a baton is supposed to be used?
what does that have to do with how is the baton being used here? is he unable to punch with it because you think the proper way for it to be used is a swinging motion? did you get elected the arbiter of how a baton is used or something? this is very amusing to me.
for that matter, even if it was being swung, a hook is also rotational movement, with the force concentrated in the furthest point (the fist), and boxers still roll to avoid or lessen the force of it by moving perpendicular to the swing. I'm curious as to why you think some random person on Lemmy has a better grasp of the physics of a swing than, say, a winner of the Golden Gloves. do you figure you're eloquent enough to argue many decades of practical evidence that contradicts you? I'm willing to listen to you try it.
They aren't punching
they are, look up the video. this is from Chile in 2019 and there are multiple angles of this takedown.
Call.
show me the elementary school science experiment that demonstrates whatever unspecified physical principle you pointedly didn't refer to
it's 2025, and people on Lemmy are asking why stealing the velocity of an object over time reduces its momentum.
I'm not going to waste my time explaining this to you. if you really are interested in impulse-momentum theorem, watch a video on how seatbelts, air bags, and crumple zones protect you when you get into a car accident.
Wow, so many fancy words... how about angular momentum?
And including the length of the baton and the radius of the trajectory?
Is the impact stronger if hit near the base of the baton or its extremity?
Please, get someone to hit you with one under these scenarios, you know, for science.
it's OK to just admit you don't know and were wrong. it doesn't make you less of a person. this comment didn't even argue anything, you're just dragging the conversation out because you don't have a good response, but want to get the last word in.
So if an object in motion with the force of 1 newton hits an object at rest that's 1 newton of force applied, yes? Now if the object instead hits an object also in motion with 0.5 newton, will the first object hit it with 1 or 0.5 newton?
I asked for the experiment or the name of the physical principle. edit: because he specifically said they teach this in elementary school... I didn't just pull that out of a hat... also they don't teach impulse-momentum theory in elementary school...
since you're just asking questions, it's called impulse-momentum theorem. if you apply enough force to an object in motion over a long enough period of time, you reduce its momentum.
if you had fast enough reflexes, you could stop a punch to the head without it harming you by moving away from it at nearly the speed it was approaching you. while no human can reliably do that, moving away from any blow reduces the force of that blow by an amount that is measurable.
this is why funding education is so important, people. this is a simple concept that anyone should understand.
I'm not just asking questions I'm trying to show your claim to be false by insisting you explain yourself fully. Now that you've explained yourself I can explain how you're wrong which I couldn't do when you were arguing by insult and implication.
Your claim is dependent on a linear force application when in fact the picture makes it clear the relevant force is rotational. Higher forces occur at the tip of a swinging bat.
Well one, the baton wasn’t being swung, it was being brought down, and two, the protestor was moving away from the direction of the tip and towards the ground.
Oh. The baton being brought down on the guy wasn't being swung. That's what it is. Must just be my lying fucking eyes and personal experience with swinging things overhand ig.
Hey, just asking questions now, are you a product of the american education system?
your argument was that mine was wrong because the baton is being swung with rotational force instead of linear force. the baton was brought straight downwards. is that rotational energy, or linear?
regardless, you would be wrong anyway, because hooks are rotational and boxers still move away from them to lessen their force. I'm going to accept the decades of practical experience they have over the opinions on how physics works from some random person on Lemmy.
Yeah and that was not the answer you got but an example. Do you follow why the baton would not hit as hard if you moved away? 😄
No. It isn't obvious to me. ~~In fact, I can see how at a particular sweetspot of moving away from the striking baton could concentrate the force in a smaller area leading to a "harder" blow.~~ Perhaps you could explain it to me since I apparently was sick that day in elementary school.
edit: strikethrough. when I wrote this I thought the confusion was the common elementary school misunderstanding of the difference between the "force" and "hardness" of a blow, which did not turn out to be the case and this was just a non-sequitur.
It's the exact same reason that hitting a parked car is a lot less bad than hitting a car going at the same speed in the opposite direction. Or why hitting the brakes when someone's about to rear-end you is a bad idea.
Bats and batons are rotational, not linear. The farther you are from the fulcrum of a rotating bar, the faster it's moving.
That's a valid counterpoint, and it really is all situational.
Yes, but this situation is a baton being swung.
Ok, so if you run into someone standing still, that will hurt a lot, right?
Now, if you run into someone else also running who is just a bit slower than you, that doesn't hurt as much.
It's the same reason boxers "roll with the punch". If a strike comes to the face they will move their head to negate/lessen the impact
That's a flawed analogy as people tend to run horizontally.
For that to "work" you'd have to move (faster) in the same direction of the baton – meaning downwards towards the ground. Realistically you'd end up on the ground, crouching, and still within reach of a blow. It could kinda work if the trajectory is diagonal 'cos you'd roll away but you'd still be in an awkward position to avoid a blow.
Well, he asked how it worked, and that's how physics work. Doesn't matter if it horisontal, diagonal or vertical
Oh, and the first commenter just mentioned moving away
Yes, so imagine a spinning broomstick. What would hurt more, getting hit at the far end from where it's rotating or right next to where its rotating.
Or a spinning fan. Does it hurt more to stick your finger in near the motor, or at the edge.
And that's a separate question.
Impulse.