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Appeals court: Spa can't discriminate against trans women
(www.advocate.com)
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this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2025
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I’m a bit torn on that one. The ban was about preop based on the article which… seems fair? As long as it’s not mixed baths in which case who cares what one’s sports. But a dick is a dick whoever has it.
I mean, are trans people who haven't had bottom surgery not supposed to use gender-separated locker rooms? Which one should we use? I go to a spa where I can change in the women's locker room and it's just very normal. I'm not concerning anyone with my dick and nobody's concerning themselves with mine. Granted, it seems patrons of this spa remain nude while using the facilities, but it's still a comparable example. If harassment / unwanted sexual advances are one's concern, then unfortunately that is just possible anyway and needs to be mitigated regardless of genital configuration. They could at least let her wear a swim skirt or something y'know?
Well there isn’t a whole lot of details in the article to start with but if this is just about lockers being branded it’s indeed stupid. But if the baths themselves are segregated there needs to be a line… or it’s mixed bath and then by all means, let everyone enjoy them. Also are those nude bath or can you put clothes on… we have both sorts here and yeah if it’s nude, and segregated I can see an argument. Clothed though that absolutely misplaced.
I guess I'm of the mind that if you're showing up to be nude in a spa around other nude people, does it actually tangibly matter which genitals are present, so long as all other norms of the space are respected? Bodies are just bodies. The rules of engagement (read: "don't") are still the same. Trans women are not coming into women's spaces to harass cis women, in fact we're a lot more likely to be harassed ourselves if we're required to use mens-only facilities instead.
This is a spa in with locations in Tacoma/Lynnwood WA, relatively near there is a nude beach that seems to handle this just fine.
Yeah it matters indeed for some. Culturally we are absolutely not in a place where everyone is comfortable just yet. I’m not saying it is ideal but ignoring where we are isn’t helping either. Indeed for the safety of trans persons first thing… and also to avoid hysteria.
I understand there's no solution here that doesn't result in discomfort for someone, it will always be a balance, but I'm pretty opposed to declaring spaces off limits for trans people for cis people's comfort. That does nothing but push the discomfort off into the future and deny us access to public spaces simply due to the fact that people don't feel like seeing our bodies. Would it be appropriate to enforce acceptable BMI ranges, or require patrons to have all their limbs, or require them to have a particular skin color? All these things make some uncomfortable too, for bullshit reasons, and we wouldn't allow for discrimination on those grounds - why are trans bodies the exception?
Not going after you in particular, this is a pretty common hangup. But it just irks me given that going to a spa every now and then is extremely important to my health due to chronic pain. If this was the norm for spas within reasonable distance of me, I'd have nowhere to go to meet that need. Denying services in this manner is not trivial or harmless.
Well… obviously as it impacts you… It’s a culture issue, it takes time and advocacy to improve… Today they are persons who are not confortable with the situation ; what about them? Dismissing their feelings as « bullshit » is a bit harsh I think. And not the best way to further the cause. This being said I’m not in your shoes so who am I…
It's true! And one of the most effective forms of advocacy for this sort of thing is integration. Being in public spaces, doing the same things cis people do, respecting norms that ensure everyone's safety there, is one of the most direct ways for us to be understood as pretty much like anyone else. Not an exception, but a peer and an equal member of a community. If you construct spaces to protect people from being uncomfortable at our mere presence, you deprive them of the exact experience that is most effective at alleviating their concerns.
"Bullshit" is shorthand for "bigoted, based on inaccurate assumptions, and very possible to overcome with exposure to the group these opinions are targeted at." I say this with love and respect for my younger self that held many of the same "bullshit" opinions. And a mild frustration and willingness to draw clear lines in the sand now that I know better. Thanks for hearing me out while I vent a bit regardless. ✌️
Look back to desegregation around race. There were many, many people that were uncomfortable. But today we consider it a positive assertion of people's rights. How much longer would you have trans women wait? Someone is always going to be offended.