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[-] Makeitstop@lemmy.world 16 points 1 day ago

Can someone explain how you are supposed to get Russia to leave? Sanctions didn’t work, lethal aid didn’t work, F-16s didn’t work, and striking Russia itself isn’t either.

These things haven't won the war, but they most definitely are working. Russia's economy is crippled, their military is running out of old equipment to cannibalize, and they lack the capability to produce the kinds of advanced military equipment they need. They've been throwing bodies into the meat grinder trying to overwhelm Ukraine, but despite the high cost they are making very little progress. This is not a great long term strategy, but it's the one Russia has been stuck with.

You can argue for the war to continue I suppose, but Ukraine isn’t winning and I’m not seeing anything here that would change that fact.

But what's the alternative? Right now Ukraine can only fight or surrender. While they fight, they can try to negotiate a peace deal, but so far the only deals Putin and Trump seem willing to consider are nearly indistinguishable from surrender. Give Russia everything they want, give up on everything you want, stop the fighting for now but put nothing in place to ensure that Russia won't just rearm and invade again later.

[-] lorty@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 day ago

There's no evidence that Russia is going to lose steam economically or on the battlefield any time soon. Continuing to fight a losing war will only make any final deal between the US, Russia and Ukraine worse for the latter. There's a reason the 2022 treaty that was proposed looks unrealistic today, and whatever deal they make now will be much better than when they finally run out of men in the Ukrainian army.

With the situation as it stands, negotiating is the best way out if you actually care about Ukraine. If you just want to weaken Russia then sure, fight to the last ukrainian.

[-] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 day ago

These things haven’t won the war, but they most definitely are working. Russia’s economy is crippled, their military is running out of old equipment to cannibalize, and they lack the capability to produce the kinds of advanced military equipment they need. They’ve been throwing bodies into the meat grinder trying to overwhelm Ukraine, but despite the high cost they are making very little progress.

Ukrainian propaganda that they've been winning all along. Russian military production is over 70% higher than at start of war, 30%/year last 2, and they gain territory every week with a weapons advantage including when new western arms shipments come in. Believing your fantasy is pro suiciding of Ukrainians.

The only deals Putin and Trump seem willing to consider are nearly indistinguishable from surrender.

The same deal from Russia was always on table for avoiding the war. Absolutely zero reason to think it was ever insincere or not meant to put both countries back at peace. If Ukraine's goal for a ceasefire is to rearm and resume terrorism operations on liberated regions of Ukraine, then Ukraine needs a new leader to get a lasting peace. Again, zero reason that Russia won't abide by peace it demands. US led Ukraine on the wrong track, and Ukraine Russia relations can get back on right track with "traditional attitude rulership"

[-] Makeitstop@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

You're right, the Ukrainians should just give up on all these uppity notions of national sovereignty and self determination. They are in Russia's sphere of influence, their place is to do what Russia says. It's their fault if they don't listen and Putin has to give them a black eye, that's just him correcting them and showing he cares.

They should welcome their Russian liberators, so they can finally see how wonderful life under Russian rule is. Just ask the people of Bucha and Mariupol, they'll be happy to tell you (if you can find a Ouija board in Cyrillic).

[-] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 day ago

give up on all these uppity notions of national sovereignty and self determination

Mostly right. They should retain their sovereignty of what's left of Ukraine. Give up ambitions of ruling over people they hate and have killed since 2014. They should realize that US puppetry did not pay off, and resume normal relations with Russia.

Bucha was a propaganda theater.

[-] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 day ago

The Ukraine war has really opened my eyes as to how many people genuinely can't tell the difference between "is" and "ought"

[-] Bo7a@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 day ago

Absolutely zero reason to think it was ever insincere

Bahahaha. Bahahahahhahahahahahahaha. Fuck you.

[-] Valmond@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

Wow kremlin talking points all over. Nothing to see here, tag the person and move on!

[-] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 day ago

Trusting peace with Russia, I understand to be a difficult ask, but they were at peace before US control. The military production rate is verifiably serious, and by far the most dangerous aspect to be disinformed on.

[-] Valmond@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

More talking points from the kremlin, nothing to see, tag and move on!

this post was submitted on 03 Mar 2025
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