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this post was submitted on 12 Jan 2025
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He’s right about one thing: There is a serious lack of actual masculinity among our leaders.
Most public figures who try to present some form of “masculinity” are just desperate and petty, willing to sacrifice nothing to earn their status, and eager to degrade others to look better by comparison.
A real man produces more than he needs, but takes only that much and ensures the rest goes to those who are less able to sustain themselves. They protect the defenseless, elevate those who are ignored, and invest in a future they won’t personally live to enjoy.
Show me a real man among you. It’s not femininity keeping you from finding one. It’s your own greed and hubris.
Real men are also able to access their emotions, express their needs(both emotional and physical), develop and share empathy, and nurture deep relationships within their community.
Though i would argue none of what either of us said has to do with gender.
Relentlessly locking your own humanity away behind a strong man facade built on shame is one of the biggest reason these fuckers become so hateful and make "manliness" seem like such a putrid prospect.
Either this comment is also misogynistic as all hell, or my mother was very masculine.
Masculinity isn't just for men. Just like femininity isn't just for women. A healthy person has a mix of these qualities, along with many others that we don't tend to align with a specific gender.
When I say "a real man", I don't mean it as an objective assessment to stick a person neatly into one of two piles. That's not how gender works, and it's not how being a person in general works.
What I mean is that if you're indulging in behavior like belittling other people for fun or "cool points", or using your power or physical strength to get what you want, and calling that "being a man", then your idea of manhood is a mirage. If you want to aspire to something based on your male gender identity, aspire to humility, vigilance, and service to others. Those are great qualities that anyone can have, but they're especially important for men if we're gonna have a respectful and productive society.
(Edit: I didn't downvote you btw. I thought your comment was pretty reasonable and mild. But I did wanna take the opportunity to elaborate, because this topic can be complex and emotionally charged. We all have a lot of baggage when it comes to gender, and it's hard on the internet to develop rapport with each other.)
It is still misogynistic to say that women who manifest those behaviors are particularly masculine. Those are adult human behaviors.
I don't know a lot of adult humans who behave that way of either gender.
And I'm an imaginary man producing just what I need. 👻
The answer is often more complex
The answer is clearly 42i
The problem is many people hear these words and instantly jump to toxic masculinity. Which you’re obviously not advocating for, but neither of us are “many people”.
Masculinity has been defined as toxic by default for many.
Yup. It is in most or at least many cases.
A big part of the issue is men constantly being told that they are responsible for everything. So this attitude would only make the problem worse.
This is why a positive kind of masculinity also needs to reject patriarchy and capitalism.
“Producing more than you take” doesn’t have to mean money. (Though I did mean money in my original comment, cuz Zuck is a greedy monster.)
Just listening to people more than you demand to be listened to. Doing chores that you know your friends and family hate. Sharing your knowledge. Cooking. Fixing things. There are so many ways you can contribute to your group that don’t take money, and don’t even take much time.
Being financially responsible and helping people when you can is important, don’t get me wrong.
But seeing your worth in purely financial terms is really limiting and unhealthy for the individual, and also tends to create perverse hierarchies inside of families.
Right but take what you just said to it's logical conclusion. Why should only men have those responsibilities? All you've really done is create a different, nicer patriarchy, that still expects men to conform to specific gender roles and still expects women to conform to specific gender roles. Consider the inverse, all the people who physically can't produce more than they require to survive, who need additional attention or care, through no fault of their own. Can those people not be men?
You've described just a generally good person, and realistically you've described more women than you have men. The goal should be to get rid of the idea that certain responsibilities are reserved for certain genders completely.
Those aren’t unique to men though (except your last paragraph), how is that not general advice?
I think our advice to men should be more:
“Your problems matter”
Or
“Standing on your own two feet (and autonomy) is especially important to most men, so we should change our economy to support that”
I’ve noticed most advice given to men usually boils down to more responsibility or expectation instead of actually giving them something like male specific support programs.
I wish I were able to achieve even 0.01% of this, I am just born unable.
It's ok. It's going to suck. Real men and women could provide for you. Not that you're not a real woman/man, but in context.
Thanks, but sadly I think there are no real men/women near me.