Mandela’s imprisonment was a big deal in the west, despite governments labeling him as a terrorist, his story galvanized significant international support.

Oh, you mean a primary operative of the ANC that pushed hard to start their guerilla efforts? lmao

Cute that you accuse me of fairy tales while you’re the one spouting all the messaging about a clearly losing party that could only win if only the air planes went away.

I haven't said that, actually. You have confused yourself again.

I’m afraid complexity is real, though.

Complexity is real, but this topic is not. You are just incurious and, like other liberals, decide to whitewash that ignorance as a recognition of (unstated, unidentifiable) complexity. A cop-out, basically. Notice that you have basically nothing to say about the alleged complexity. Nothing that actually challenges anything I've said.

Humans are a mess, and do things for all manner of reasons, despite our faiths trying to oversimplify everything into some imaginary god or single philosophy of materialism.

Okay bro just one more toke bro. You are so confused, I don't even know where to begin. When did we begin discussing materialism or philosophy? Buddy, we are stuck at the basics of things like not lying and remembering what we are talking about and how you should read before sharing opinions.

You may have addressed it, but you’re simply nonsensical.

I don't know what you're referring to and I don't care to try to figure out out. Be clearer in your thoughts and words or use the quote feature.

Nitpicking pointless details. Fine, all fighters for the North Vietnamese were not the sole cause for victory.

I didn't say anything like that either lmao. You seem to have no idea what is happening most of the time, it's like you don't even read what I said.

It takes two sides to end a war, a side has to accept its defeat. The US only accepted its defeat due to domestic factors, there were plenty of war hawks keen to keep going.

I've already addressed this. I will wait for you to respond to what I said instead of endlessly repeating yourself.

No, I am not the one looking at a sole cause. I acknowledged the efficacy of the guerilla campaign. The one looking at sole causes is you, pointing to that guerilla campaign. I am saying it alone is not enough, more factors were necessary.

Same as before, I don't know what you're referring to and don't care to go and figure it out. Use the quote feature or organize your thoughts.

Uh huh, shift all the blame to cover for yourself, very convenient. It’s pretty clear to see a political agenda instead of an honest intellectual conversation though.

I am having a very honest conversation, but it is in no way intellectual. We are, as I said, stuck at very basic things like, "is it okay to lie?" and, "do I need to actually go and try to learn things before having and sharing my half-baked opinions?" and, "maybe what will help is a series of confused generalizations about faith and god and philosophy of materialism with no relation to what anyone else is talking about". We could only ever have an intellectual conversation if you were in any way interested in an intellectual topic. To be perfectly frank, this topic does not require much in the way of an intellectual discussion, it is mostly about establishing basic facts of which you are entirely ignorant and obstinately refuse to engage with our educate yourself about, but you do seem to think that I am at fault for not accepting your nonsense fabrications you offer as substitute.

Your whole thrust is in defense of hamas.

I'm not certain that I've even mentioned Hamas in this conversation. I certainly wouldn't reduce the Palestinian resistance to only Hamas. I think you are just projecting your own lightweight understanding of the topic onto me.

Mine is not in support of Israel’s genocide, though, just in an accurate understanding of what’s going on, no matter who it reflects poorly upon.

But you have no understanding of what is going on. Nearly everything is clearly a revelation to you. There is rarely anything concrete or specific in what you say and when there is it is usually wrong or misleading. When I provide concrete specifics you just make things up to be contrarian and rescue your prior fibbing. You are acting in the exact opposite way that you are currently claiming.

The real propagandist here is pretty clearly you, you are attempting to positively participate in an ongoing military conflict, and help one of the two sides. I understand, but don’t throw stones when the real agent is yourself.

Agent? What? I of course stand with the Palestinian resistance, this is obvious and I in no way hide it. And propaganda is just an attempt to convince others of political positions through argument and presentation. We all engage in it. But mine is accurate, informed, and just.

Unfortunately you have decided that the important thing here is your ego and not, say, the Palestinians themselves. God forbid you learn anything about them.