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OK, which one of you is it
(sh.itjust.works)
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this post was submitted on 05 Oct 2024
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Most cars already run on Linux
Ironically, my cars don't run Linux for the same reason my computers do: I'm militant about protecting my property rights and privacy, so I refuse to have any car new enough to have "infotainment" because it's all closed-source and Tivoized. It's effectively hostile, despite the Linux kernel at the bottom of it.
I'll buy a car made after the mid-2000s when I can re-flash the whole thing with non-DRM'd community-supported software, and not a minute before.
I mean; there's nothing stopping you from using a car from an earlier era; and bodging in an Android Tablet into your dashboard as an infotainment system.
The thing doesn't need to be concerned with your climate controls or anything else on your CAN bus for security reasons anyways. So you can leave those controls as they are and just let the tablet replace your Radio effectively for 100% DRM free media enjoyment with your favorite fully rooted and flashed tablet running whatever FLOSS version of Android firmware you like.
Personally there's just certain controls in a car I firmly believe should NEVER be digitized anyways.
I’m in the same boat. So much that I just paid a bunch to replace the transmission of my 2012.. I could probably have not done that and invested in something newer, but I don’t… want that…
I’ll stick with just getting more of this exact car when this one isn’t repairable anymore (it has telemetry, but it can’t be accessed without plugging in directly, which isn’t typically a huge concern I have) Or when they can be flashed, as you say. Like I’d love to have an EV because I rarely drive far, but I absolutely won’t buy a spymobile to get one.
That'll literally never happen due to testing and safety requirements.
Yeah, just like how DIYing car repairs and modifications has been illegal for decades now.
...oh wait.
Back in reality, yet again "X but on a computer" is not somehow magically different from "X", and pretending it is as an excuse to curtail property rights is nothing but authoritarian fearmongering.
You literally cannot mess with your emissions system legally.... nor can you disable or modify certain safety systems (seat belts, etc). Software that goes into vehicles requires validation testing. You might be fine doing 1 off things, but there will never be a "flash able" car on the market that let's you bring your own software, and honestly I'm good with that. I don't need your massive multiple ton machine bluescreening down the highway or locking up the breaks randomly because you installed the wrong module.
First of all, that's a Clean Air Act thing with limited purpose and scope, not a blanket restriction on owners' right to modify their property. Moreover, it is certainly not a restriction imposed and enforced by manufacturers that somehow justifies making the software closed-source and DRM'd. I want to make it clear here that, by supporting closed-source vehicle software, what you are really supporting is private enforcement of laws instead of government enforcement of laws, which is incredibly fucked up.
Second, it is not true that the act of messing with the emissions system is itself illegal. What's illegal is the act of using the vehicle on public roads afterwards. You can use your emissions-system-modified car off-road or on private property (e.g. farms or racetracks) all you want.
Third, the way that law is implemented is, frankly, bad and wrong anyway. Instead of saying that parts need to be EPA-certified (or, in practice, CARB-certified) to be legal to use and that the ECU has to report "ready," what it should do is say you can modify it however you want but that it has to pass a real "stick-a-probe-in-the-tailpipe-and-actually-fucking-measure" emissions test instead of a bullshit "visually inspect and plug a computer into the OBD2 port" test.
No, that's a lie. It is perfectly legal to swap your factory seat belts for a DOT-approved and properly-installed four-point racing harness, for instance.
That sort of thing could already happen for decades due to people fucking up their mechanical modification of the brakes, yet that's always been allowed. In practice, it isn't actually a widespread problem because people aren't actually as suicidally moronic as you seem to think they are, and that isn't going to magically change just because a computer is involved. Your argument is nothing but exactly the kind of fearmongering that I'm calling bullshit on.
sounds like jailbreaks are needed then
Until recently, I had a Ford Flex.
The only thing I didn't like about it was the proud "powered by Microsoft" emblem (and its implications).
The entertainment system might run something windows based, but there are dozens of microcontrollers that do run linux.
Sure, and for the eight years I owned it before it broke down beyond being worth repairing, I had no problem with those. The infotainment system did kinda suck, but it was a 2014 so I think it would get some leeway for that even if it weren't Microsoft powered.
The emblem just offended my sensibilities. I never pulled it off, though, because the friends who rode with me all knew how passionately I feel about Linux (they mostly also work with it - I try not to proselytize to the disinterested) and found it funny.
According to KBB, the car was worth $8k when it broke down. I put almost double that into repairing the same part of the engine at three different mechanics before giving up. Sadly, for some silly reason, Ford no longer makes the Flex. I think the Explorer is pretty close, but I couldn't find one close enough to test drive. I would have loved to convert my car to an EV, but I wouldn't trust my own work on that front and didn't want to pay as much as would cost to have a professional do it.
Every time I get into my new vehicle - a 2024 Ford Edge - I think to myself how much I miss the Flex. That said, I did get a great deal on the Edge.
SYNC 4 is QNX, the next gen units like the one in the new Lincoln Nautilis is QNX + Android with some Linux on other ECUs. MS is firmly gone from Ford vehicles.
This is useful information and the depth of your knowledge is impressive. Not that I expect operating system expertise from a car salesperson who has no reason to have any, but my salesperson told me it was still Microsoft. Thank you.
Suddenly I miss the Flex just a tiny, tiny bit less.
There's zero MS in the stack on anything with SYNC4 and newer. Your salesperson is wrong. Even development is largely done on Ubuntu. SYNC 4 has two front ends, one's Qt which has some Panasonic outsourcing baggage, the newer one is web based. The latter is what's in the Mach-e. Since about 2017 all of this has moved in house. Ford hired the whole BlackBerry mobile R&D org in late 2016 - people, offices and everything. It's had an honest-to-god software org since then.
Your Flex probably had the older SYNC iteration that was MS developed. BTW I'm not sure if it was Windows based or whether it was QNX with MS devs creating the software stack on top of it.
Who are you, who are so wise in the ways of ~~science~~ infotainment development?