281

I have been seeing plenty of guillhotine and mollotov jokes here, and as the title says, punching nazis.

I've been reading a book about nonviolence and anarchism, and he basically shows how we shouldn't use violence, even in extreme cases (like neo nazis).

The main argument is that the means dictates the ends, so if we want a non violent (and non opressing) society, punching people won't help.

And if it is just a joke, you should probably know that some people have been jailed for decades because of jokes like these (see: avoiding the fbi, second chapter of the book above).

Obviously im up for debate, or else I wouldn't make this post. And yes, I do stand for nonviolence.

(english is not my first language, im sorry if I made errors, or wansn't clear.)

(if this is not pertinent, I can remake this post in c/politics or something)

(the book is The Anarchist Cookbook by Keith McHenry, if you are downloading from the internet, make sure you download it from the correct author, there is another book with the same name.)

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] PotatoKat@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago

The social contract only applies to the tolerent. By allowing the intolerant to spread their hate you allow them to spread their ideas. Physical violence isn't the only kind of violence. Allowing the intolerant to speak intolerance you are being tolerent of the intolerant.

[-] xor 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

But there's an important difference between allowing intolerance, and letting the legal system be the arbiter of how it should be disallowed.

Vigilante justice not only deprives the perpetrator of their right to a fair trial and proportionate punishment (yes, being intolerant does not deprive you of your human rights) but also denies the victims their right to see the perpetrator receive justice.

YOU do not get to be the arbiter of justice, just because you think someone is a terrible person. Maybe they're mentally ill. Maybe they have dementia. Maybe they're also a victim of abuse.

Document the incident, protect and comfort the victim, contact the police and allow actual justice to take place.

[-] PotatoKat@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

contact the police and allow actual justice to take place

And when the police are KKK? When the police are the Nazis? This is such a privileged perspective it's not even funny. "Cawl the poweeeeccee" as if they haven't historically sided with the intolerant. You have so much faith in the justice system. Law isn't morality it's an enforcement of what those in power want.

This is also ignoring that intolerance isn't illegal. So cops won't do shit and might even arrest you for wasting their time. Fucking libs I swear. Don't worry about it someone will do the punching for you while you stay back and call the cops for them to shoot a nearby dog or arrest the black person in the situation.

Also I said why other than law because I assumed you knew that law doesn't function to enforce tolerance. Clearly I overestimated you.

[-] xor 1 points 3 months ago

Now, in a scenario where they are about to commit violence, or the justice system has failed, the balance may be different

Left your reading comprehension at home?

The argument I was supporting is that you don't have carte blanche to do whatever you want to intolerant people. The argument I am making is that you have a moral obligation to rely on the law first because that IS the social contract. Not because the law would punish you for it.

Not all police are the same everywhere, but regardless, you can't just stab people who are being racist.

[-] PotatoKat@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago

The justice system is failing by allowing them to spew and spread their intolerance. They are creating a society that make minorities fear (look at Springfield with literal kkk fliers going around). We should create a society where the intolerant are fearful of spreading their message.

And nobody suggested carte blanche except you and the person you're supporting (aka a strawman). A punch isn't a gunshot, it isn't a stabbing, and it isn't torture. Their violent rhetoric should be met with violence to make them fear spreading their message.

When the law doesnt align with what's right then relying on the law is pointless. The law will defend their ability to spread intolerance because the law is tolerant of the intolerant.

this post was submitted on 15 Sep 2024
281 points (100.0% liked)

Ask Lemmy

27240 readers
1901 users here now

A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions


Rules: (interactive)


1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them


2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?


3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.


4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either !asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world or !asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com. NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].


5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.


6) No US Politics.
Please don't post about current US Politics. If you need to do this, try !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world or !askusa@discuss.online


Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.

Partnered Communities:

Tech Support

No Stupid Questions

You Should Know

Reddit

Jokes

Ask Ouija


Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS