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important rulepost (lemmy.world)
submitted 2 years ago by dsmaster7173@lemmy.world to c/196@lemmy.world
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[-] RedMarsRepublic@lemmy.world 40 points 2 years ago

Liberals when talking about human rights: :) Liberals when talking about the enforcement of human rights: :(

[-] KermitLeFrog@lemmy.world 42 points 2 years ago

Tankies ≠ leftists ≠ liberals

Plenty of leftists want human rights and even know we'll need a revolution to get them, but the USSR and CCP were not ever communist, they were authoritarian oligarchies disguised as communism. The same way the US is not a democracy or a republic, it's an authoritarian oligarchy disguised as one.

[-] RedMarsRepublic@lemmy.world 18 points 2 years ago

The USSR wasn't perfect (and Stalin ruined most things that were good obviously) but they weren't any worse than the USA or the west.

[-] KermitLeFrog@lemmy.world 25 points 2 years ago

Your reading comprehension really is something to behold. You basically just disagreed with me by saying exactly the same thing I just fucking said.

[-] RedMarsRepublic@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Yeah okay, fair enough, I kinda only read the start and end of your post. I guess I agree with you then. I still think the USSR gets too much hate in general though. I vociferously defend the USSR around liberals and attack it around M-Ls lol.

[-] KermitLeFrog@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago

My opinion on the USSR is that Lenin was cool, Trotsky was cool, and everyone else deserved to be hanged in Minecraft

[-] weirdwallace75@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago

Lenin and Trotsky were mass murderers.

[-] brain_in_a_box@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago

What do you think a revolution is?

[-] weirdwallace75@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

Not the massacre of the Kronstadt Rebellion:

Disappointed in the direction of the Bolshevik government, the rebels—whom Leon Trotsky himself had praised earlier as "adornment and pride of the revolution"—demanded a series of reforms: reduction in Bolshevik power, newly elected soviets (councils) to include socialist and anarchist groups, economic freedom for peasants and workers, dissolution of the bureaucratic governmental organs created during the civil war, and the restoration of civil rights for the working class.

Convinced of the popularity of the reforms they were fighting for (which they partially tried to implement during the revolt), the Kronstadt seamen waited in vain for the support of the population in the rest of the country and rejected aid from emigrants. Although the council of officers advocated a more offensive strategy, the rebels maintained a passive attitude as they waited for the government to take the first step in negotiations. By contrast, the authorities took an uncompromising stance, presenting an ultimatum demanding unconditional surrender on March 5. Once this period expired, the Bolsheviks raided the island several times and suppressed the revolt on March 18 after shooting and imprisoning several thousand rebels.

[snip]

Trotsky and his commander-in-chief, Sergey Kamenev, had approved chemical warfare by gas shells and balloons against Kronstadt if the resistance continued.

Not the Red Terror

[-] tumble_weeds@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

I kinda only read the start and end of your post

You should try learning to read, it will change your life.

[-] passport@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago

"BUHT REAL COMMUNISM HAS NEVER BEEN TRIED"

[-] Amiral_Poitou@beehaw.org 10 points 2 years ago
[-] RedMarsRepublic@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago

Yes that was my point, easy to criticise tankies but at least they want to do things.

[-] weirdwallace75@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

I'm a Liberal through and through and I'm all in favor of enforcing human rights.

[-] RedMarsRepublic@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

That's great, but liberalism as an ideology in the real world is pathetically weak on the right.

[-] weirdwallace75@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Yeah, the Liberals only destroyed the Nazis and Imperial Japan in WWII, saving the USSR in the process.

Not to mention jailing far right nutballs whenever they step out of line.

Much worse than running gulags for anarchists. /s

[-] RedMarsRepublic@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

The USSR did 90% of the work in beating the Nazis though. As for jailing the far right, it sure doesn't look like it, just look how many of them are running around encouraging stochastic terrorism against the LGBT community.

[-] weirdwallace75@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago

The USSR only fought the Nazis, and then only after allying with them.

[-] RedMarsRepublic@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

The west also did a ton of non-aggression pacts and friendship pacts with the Nazis. Also; Poland was fascist at the time too.

[-] weirdwallace75@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

Poland was not in a good place politically, but it wasn't Fascist, and the USSR didn't just make a friendship pact with the Nazis, it went to war alongside them. Stalin was an opportunist who made a dumb decision, not a principled anti-Fascist.

[-] RedMarsRepublic@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

https://www.jstor.org/stable/1849240

Poland also did the exact same thing as the USSR did when it allied with Nazi Germany to annex part of Czechoslovakia. I don't deny that Stalin was an opportunist but nonetheless, despite its failures it was the USSR which did the lion's share of warfare against the Nazis and ended the holocaust. As for not taking part against Japan, they did invade Manchuria and would have turned their attention on the rest of Japan had they not surrendered to the USA (indeed the USSR entering the war against them was the biggest reason why they surrendered).

[-] weirdwallace75@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

(indeed the USSR entering the war against them was the biggest reason why they surrendered).

No, it wasn't. This is straight-up Soviet propaganda.

this post was submitted on 13 Jun 2023
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