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submitted 9 months ago by L4s@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world

Frozen embryos are “children,” according to Alabama’s Supreme Court::IVF often produces more embryos than are needed or used.

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[-] BaronVonBort@lemmy.world 145 points 9 months ago

My wife and I had our son via IVF. We wanted every single one of our fertilized eggs to work, but they didn’t. We had one that did and we suffered every time one didn’t.

Fuck Alabama for adding on to the torment and emotional suffering families going through IVF and any kind of infertility suffer already. It’s just adding unspeakable cruelty again.

[-] essteeyou@lemmy.world 44 points 9 months ago

I've seen my sister going through this process for years. It's emotionally challenging, financially challenging, and risky to her health. She's had two ectopic pregnancies and had to be operated on twice. If she manages to have one baby she'll be happy, and there's no way it would make sense to implant all the other embryos given the health risk to her. So what would Alabama have her do?

I'm glad she doesn't live there.

[-] Evilcoleslaw@lemmy.world 58 points 9 months ago

Alabama would have probably let her die with one of the ectopic pregnancies tbh.

[-] Silentiea@lemm.ee 25 points 9 months ago

I have heard someone say in all seriousness that it's still murder to abort an ectopic pregnancy (which would just kill the mom and 'child' if allowed to continue)...

[-] KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com 24 points 9 months ago

“But god can save her! If it’s part of his plan they will survive!”

/s if it wasn’t obvious.

[-] Silentiea@lemm.ee 14 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I mean the odds aren't very different for the kid after the procedure. Why can't God save them after? Not even /s, why don't they ever have an answer for that? If we're relying on a miracle anyway, why would an infinitely powerful god need such constrained circumstances to make it work?

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[-] carl_dungeon@lemmy.world 102 points 9 months ago

Then they should count as dependents, grant the parents tax breaks, be eligible for social benefits, receive child support payments, be counted as passengers when in mom driving in HOV lanes, etc.

[-] Wogi@lemmy.world 61 points 9 months ago

Holy shit storing embryos frozen and counting them as dependants would be an actual life hack

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[-] TellusChaosovich@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago

We almost got this with Alabama 2023 bill HB182 which would grant unborn children as dependents on taxes. The bill didn't pass. These people want children to count only when dolling out punishments.

https://legiscan.com/AL/text/HB182/2023

[-] SteelCorrelation@lemmy.one 101 points 9 months ago

I love how the chief justice cites his god as his legal argument. What a sham. The god of the Bible has, thus far, failed to prove its legitimacy in any context, especially regarding a secular legal system.

[-] bobs_monkey@lemm.ee 35 points 9 months ago

Nevermind forcing his god onto the rest of the population. If these yoyos get far enough, they'll start sending non believers to "reeducation camps."

[-] erwan@lemmy.ml 35 points 9 months ago

I would think his reference to god would be a sufficient argument to nullify his decision? As you said the US justice system is secular.

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[-] sacredfire@programming.dev 77 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I heard this somewhere: “You’re in an IVF clinic. It’s on fire and you enter a burning room. On a table is a large cooler with 5 thousand fertilized eggs, and there’s also a crying, injured five-year-old girl in the room. Which one do you save? You can only save one.” The answer for most people is obviously the 5 year old and it’s not a hard choice.

[-] Facebones@reddthat.com 72 points 9 months ago

Every woman with a frozen embryo.

Get those child tax credits.

Don't have frozen embryos? Freeze some

Get those child tax credits

[-] TellusChaosovich@lemmy.world 19 points 9 months ago

That is not legal. They have made embryos children when looking for people to put in jail, and not children when looking to give out benefits. Very convenient for the state budget!

[-] JimmyMcGill@lemmy.world 69 points 9 months ago

In a concurring opinion, Chief Justice Tom Parker cited his religious beliefs and quoted the Bible to support the stance.

"Human life cannot be wrongfully destroyed without incurring the wrath of a holy God, who views the destruction of His image as an affront to Himself," Parker wrote. "Even before birth, all human beings bear the image of God, and their lives cannot be destroyed without effacing his glory."

wtf

[-] SeaJ@lemm.ee 31 points 9 months ago

Ironic that he quoted the Bible since the Bible is okay with abortion.

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[-] otp@sh.itjust.works 21 points 9 months ago

Does Alabama not do the whole "separation of church and state" thing? Lol

[-] TellusChaosovich@lemmy.world 16 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

No the religious zealots here do not. School coaches require prayer before practices and games, same sex couples get banned from prom, kids at school get tricked into going to fun after school events that turn out to actually be evangelism stunts. A lot of applications to educational programs, gymnastics programs, and jobs ask about "leadership" which is code for experience as a church deacon or active evangelist.

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[-] sit_up_straight 62 points 9 months ago

In the Alabama case, a hospital patient wandered through an unlocked door, removed frozen, preserved embryos from subzero storage and, suffering an ice burn, dropped the embryos, destroying them. Affected IVF patients filed wrongful-death lawsuits against the IVF clinic under the state's Wrongful Death of a Minor Act. The case was initially dismissed in a lower court, which ruled the embryos did not meet the definition of a child. But the Alabama Supreme Court ruled that "it applies to all children, born and unborn, without limitation." In a concurring opinion, Chief Justice Tom Parker cited his religious beliefs and quoted the Bible to support the stance.

absolutely wild case

[-] FrankTheHealer@lemmy.world 66 points 9 months ago

Why the fuck is he allowed to quote the Bible to support his stance.

Ffs America

[-] NocturnalEngineer@lemmy.world 23 points 9 months ago

It's as though they took "The Handmaid's Tale" as a blueprint.

[-] lauha@lemmy.one 42 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Thus every unfertilized menstruation is a death

Every fap is a murder of millions

[-] whoisearth@lemmy.ca 47 points 9 months ago

Women of America. Get a freezer. Freeze your eggs and transport them home. On all future taxes claim them as dependents in perpetuity. Fuck these asshats. Game the system and make bank!

[-] NevermindNoMind@lemmy.world 44 points 9 months ago

We had I think six eggs harvested and fertilized, of those I think two made it to blastocyst, meaning the cells doubled as they should by day five. The four that didn't double correctly were discarded. Did we commit 4 murders? Or does it not count if the embryo doesn't make it to blastocyst? We did genetic testing on the two that were fertilized, one is normal and the other came back with all manner of horrible deformities. We implanted the healthy one, and discarded the genetically abnormal one. I assume that was another murder. Should we have just stored it indefinitely? We would never use it, can't destroy it, so what do? What happens after we die?

I know the answer is probably it wasn't god's will for us to have kids, all IVF is evil, blah blah blah. It really freaks me out sometimes how much of the country is living in the 1600s.

[-] TORFdot0@lemmy.world 15 points 9 months ago

Whether you committed murder or not is directly correlated to the amount of money you have and whether you are in the in-group.

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[-] sturmblast@lemmy.world 44 points 9 months ago

Christians are such fucking idiots.

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[-] pineapplelover@lemm.ee 31 points 9 months ago

Tune in for the next episode of Conservative Politics! [Red state] says menstruating kills potential children? Find out next week!

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[-] Buttons@programming.dev 30 points 9 months ago

Sing it with me...

🎵 Every sperm is... 🎵

[-] FollyDolly@lemmy.world 21 points 9 months ago

🎶 sacred, every sperm is great... 🎶

[-] TSG_Asmodeus@lemmy.world 18 points 9 months ago

🎶 If a sperm is wasted, God gets quite irate. 🎶

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[-] Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works 27 points 9 months ago

Alabama? More like Talibana, a’ight? Being ruled by religious extremists - in the 21st (ce) century - blows my mind. Are people still that backwards? Apparently, yes. Nothing wrong with a bit of private faith in the sky man if it helps you in life… but to be a fundamentalist is unforgivable.

[-] Bitflip@lemmy.ml 25 points 9 months ago

Does this mean I can claim my sperm as a dependent on my taxes?

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[-] ShellMonkey@lemmy.socdojo.com 23 points 9 months ago

Just wait until everyone on the state gets IVF treatments but never implants them, dozens of dependants claimed on their tax forms for free!

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[-] elbucho@lemmy.world 20 points 9 months ago

I recently read Neil Stephenson's book called "Fall", in which a significant chunk of the novel is set about 30 years in the future. At that point in time, large swathes of America are referred to as "Ameristan", because they are break-away territories ruled by evangelical warlords. It feels surprisingly prescient.

[-] TellusChaosovich@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago

We here in bama have been preferring the term Talibama.

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[-] NarrativeBear@lemmy.world 18 points 9 months ago

Not sure exactly what companies store these frozen embryos, but if the company closes or you pass. How are the embryos disposed of?

Does the company need to keep them frozen and alive indefinitely? Or is it murder if they are terminated by the company? What happens if the freezers/cooler breaks? Who is responsible for the now classified murder?

[-] 800XL@lemmy.world 20 points 9 months ago

The woman. It's always the woman in christian fundamentalism.

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[-] Sensitivezombie@lemmy.zip 17 points 9 months ago

Someone should sue Alabama for keeping 'children' in a frozen state.

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[-] Plopp@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago

Someone think of the embryos!

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this post was submitted on 21 Feb 2024
427 points (100.0% liked)

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