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submitted 10 months ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/politics@lemmy.world

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said the reelection of former President Trump would be the “end of democracy” in an interview released Saturday by The Guardian.

“It will be the end of democracy, functional democracy,” Sanders said in the interview.

The Vermont senator also said in the interview that he thinks that another round of Trump as the president will be a lot more extreme than the first.

“He’s made that clear,” Sanders said. “There’s a lot of personal bitterness, he’s a bitter man, having gone through four indictments, humiliated, he’s going to take it out on his enemies. We’ve got to explain to the American people what that means to them — what the collapse of American democracy will mean to all of us.”

Sanders’s words echo those President Biden made in a recent campaign speech during which he said that Trump’s return to the presidency would risk American democracy. The president highlighted the Jan. 6, 2021 attack on the Capitol in an attempt to cement a point about Trump and other Republicans espousing a kind of extremism that was seen by the world on that day.

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[-] sin_free_for_00_days@sopuli.xyz 111 points 10 months ago

If he is even allowed to run it means The Constitution is just optional.

[-] CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world 41 points 10 months ago
[-] spider@aussie.zone 99 points 10 months ago

That already happened in 2010 with Citizens United, and the late Justice John Paul Stevens' dissent nailed it:

"A democracy cannot function effectively when its constituent members believe laws are being bought and sold."

[-] fossilesque@mander.xyz 29 points 10 months ago

That's one part of it. This is a good read: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/america-is-not-a-democracy/550931/

“The preferences of the average American appear to have only a minuscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy.”

The worst part about all of this is, imo, we've known what the problems are for so long now, but nothing is getting fixed and the rot is apparent. I grew up in America, but seeing what it is becoming from the outside is heartbreaking.

[-] chitak166@lemmy.world 28 points 10 months ago

I would've added,

"If money didn't influence elections, why are people spending so much on them?"

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[-] Suavevillain@lemmy.world 79 points 10 months ago

Voters should have never been put in this position. If we have to depend on Joe Biden and Dems to clutch out the win and save Democracy then you might as well start bracing for the worst. "Not being Trump" is low bar a dangerous way to try to win.

[-] RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world 32 points 10 months ago

He has done a pretty solid job, and has passed some good legislation. If it weren't for this whole funding Israel's horrific war crime thing, I'd have no qualms giving him more time to clean shit up.

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[-] Smoogs@lemmy.world 28 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Not voting for the bigger evil has been the way it has been for much longer than you think. And it is on the voters. believe it or not it is actually the voters fault (the non voters fault) that it is this way. As It was also on the voters to do candidate nomination. So you can’t excuse your first neglect and then complain it’s ‘too much’ now when it is all the way at the the election phase and you just now woke up to complain you hate who was nominated for the election. So yeah it is on the voters. This part always is. It’s like a manager hiring a shit person because they didn’t bother to do a background check and then complaining ‘it’s too much responsibility’ when the shit hiree starts toxifying the work place. It’s not just a bad employee to make that situation. It’s bad manager. So voting public are just as much to blame for making this a shit show.

[-] CosmicCleric@lemmy.world 24 points 10 months ago

And it is on the voters.

No, it's on the party, and the candidate they select to run.

[-] derphurr@lemmy.world 16 points 10 months ago

It's that simple. DNC should be having debates and put forward the best candidate. DNC is completely corrupt and bought by the most fundraising.

attorneys representing the DNC claim that the Democratic National Committee would be well within their rights to “go into back rooms like they used to and smoke cigars and pick the candidate that way." https://observer.com/2017/08/court-admits-dnc-and-debbie-wasserman-schulz-rigged-primaries-against-sanders/

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 11 points 10 months ago

A. Parties haven't held effective primaries for an incumbent since I was born.

B. Political parties are private organizations. They are completely within their rights to go back into the smoke filled back rooms.

C. That would be political suicide and tells us exactly what the DNC thinks about us.

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[-] Suavevillain@lemmy.world 14 points 10 months ago

It isn't voter's fault, once again the theme for Dems is "Hey I'm not that worse guy." to be the selling point to save democracy. People saying democracy is at stake isn't going to motivate everyone when it doesn't even work properly in the country they live in. The only class of people who have access to democracy is the wealthy ruling class. When they collectively want something, they get it.

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[-] reverendsteveii@lemm.ee 61 points 10 months ago

In fairness to the Senator, Trump also loudly and proudly says this all the time.

[-] CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world 60 points 10 months ago
[-] foggianism@lemmy.world 19 points 10 months ago

And still, half of America probably is like: "don't threaten me with good times".

[-] CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago

Maybe like a third or so. Unfortunately, due to our silly system, they have an outsized say.

[-] MiDaBa@lemmy.ml 49 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

If all it ever took was one bad president then democracy has already ended and it was always just a matter of time.

This reminds of the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy when it describes a planet ruled by reptiles:

[It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..." "You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?" "No," said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people." "Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy." "I did," said Ford. "It is." "So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't people get rid of the lizards?" "It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want." "You mean they actually vote for the lizards?" "Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course." "But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?" "Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in.]

👆 This Douglas Adams bit is the exact situation we find ourselves in now.

[-] TechyDad@lemmy.world 23 points 10 months ago

One big lesson from Trump's presidency was that many of the rules we thought constrained politicians were only "Gentlemen's Agreements." They held up because everyone agreed to abide by them. When Trump walked in, refused to abide by them, and wasn't immediately struck by the political equivalent to lightning from heaven, all the politicians on the right decided that they could toss those pesky rules aside also.

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[-] oxideseven@lemmy.ca 27 points 10 months ago
[-] prole@sh.itjust.works 20 points 10 months ago

Except he's not running, and is too old to run again. So do the next best thing and listen to what he's fucking saying. This is not a joke.

[-] Vaggumon@lemm.ee 22 points 10 months ago

100% correct.

[-] Blackmist@lemmy.world 20 points 10 months ago

It survived four years of him and will survive four more.

Your biggest problem is that there is half the country willing to elect him again. Who will they elect next? Trump is not the end point on that particular axis. They were quite prepared to march into the Capitol building. What else are they prepared to do?

Trump is a symptom. Sure, you can stop him running. Hell, he's a fat old man. Can't be long until nature takes it's course. But the country will still be sick.

[-] FoxBJK@midwest.social 18 points 10 months ago

It survived four years of him and will survive four more.

Because he had no fucking idea what he was doing and no plan. That mistake won't be made a second time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025

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[-] Rooskie91@discuss.online 16 points 10 months ago

America isn't even the most democratic democracy in the world tho.

[-] Skua@kbin.social 34 points 10 months ago

How is this a counter to what he said? The second-most democratic country in the world isn't the most democratic either, it'd still be a bad thing for it to lose its democracy

[-] apt_install_coffee@lemmy.ml 16 points 10 months ago

America isn't even the most democratic country in the Americas, but that's clearly not the point they're making.

If the title was "...end of world democracy" you'd have a point but given how much fascistic rhetoric and policy has increased around the world since trunpism it's fair to say many countries are following the US lead here.

[-] agent_flounder@lemmy.world 16 points 10 months ago

Yeah so maybe lets not let the Republicans fick it up even worse.

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[-] RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world 16 points 10 months ago

So have him arrested as an enemy of the state, like a fat dumb unathletic Will Smith.

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[-] mydude@lemmy.world 14 points 10 months ago

The American choice: Vote for the good orphan-crushing machine. Vote for the bad orphan-crushing machine.

[-] Custoslibera@lemmy.world 24 points 10 months ago

Trump and Biden are so similar!

I literally can’t tell the difference between a guy who says he will be a dictator and one that doesn’t!!!

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[-] Xanis@lemmy.world 14 points 10 months ago

Not exactly a hard choice. Either vote for fascism, or dont. Given the choice, which we still have, I think I'll vote against fascism, thanks. Unless you would like to give us an amazing third choice in this situation?

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[-] asg101@lemmy.world 12 points 10 months ago

The U.S. was never a democracy to begin with. The Constitution decreed that only rich white males had the vote. Excluding a majority of the population makes it an oligarchy, not a democracy.

[-] TechyDad@lemmy.world 12 points 10 months ago

I'd call it a "flawed democracy." The ideals behind it were sound, but the execution left much to be improved upon. And we've made many improvements (though we still have a ways to go).

Still, even a flawed democracy is preferable to Dictator Trump.

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this post was submitted on 13 Jan 2024
1062 points (100.0% liked)

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