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[-] ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world 161 points 1 year ago

The fact that the comment sections of these posts are always the same just shows how much oil propaganda has affected the situation.

That and people thinking protesting isn't deliberately meant to disrupt the daily lives of people in an attempt to force them to acknowledge there's a problem and do something about it.

By nature protests are supposed to be disruptive to the average person because it's the average person that decides what policies and laws we have.

The problem is the average person is too stupid/ignorant/tired/lazy to realize this and just sees it as a personal attack and reacts with pure emotion.

[-] Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee 30 points 1 year ago

No. Protests are supposed to change the mind of the average person, or at least bring their attention to a given cause.

Holding someone's time to ransom doesn't help your cause, it just makes people resent you.

Has the UK become more environmentally aware since Just Stop Oil kicked off?

[-] ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world 95 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Do you not remember the protests for civil rights? The sit ins? The marches? The protests outside the white house?

Literally every part of what is protesting is based on disrupting everything for the average citizen so the govt is forced to make a change.

The point of protesting is to force action without violence. People blocking traffic or stopping people from entering certain businesses is exactly what protesting is.

Protesting isn't just rallies where people come together to talk about what they all agree on. It's actively forcing people to acknowledge the issue without resorting to violence.

Edit: I didn't see this was a UK post which is my bad but it's still relevant

[-] obinice@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

Do you not remember the protests for civil rights? The sit ins? The marches? The protests outside the white house?

No? I'm from the UK, as is the subject of this article, why would we remember what happened in some other country? I'm also a millennial, would I even remember the protests for civil rights in your country if I had been from there?

Just food for thought is all, you have a point of course :-)

[-] Guntrigger@feddit.ch 42 points 1 year ago

I'm from the UK. Also a millennial. Being ignorant about defining moments in world history can't be pinned on either of those things.

[-] FarceOfWill@infosec.pub 34 points 1 year ago

The suffragettes were pretty disruptive, even the peaceful ones. The bombing suffragettes were extremely disruptive.

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[-] ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

Yeah I realized after I made the comment that this was based in the UK. That's my bad. I don't really have an excuse lmao

[-] Risk@feddit.uk 30 points 1 year ago

The commenter is being needlessly pedantic like they aren't aware of the Civil Rights Movement at all. Even assuming they weren't one of the people that studied it, the USA's Civil Rights Movement is a common topic of study in history curricula in the UK because it has a significant cultural impact and is an excellent study of protest, the importance of civil rights, racial tensions, and context of the USA which is a dominant presence across the world.

The Civil Rights Movement had an incredibly low popular support before the Civil Rights Act was passed.

Protests are meant to disrupt. No progress is made unless you have a moderate and an extreme movement. That way the status quo compromises to the moderates to prevent the extreme from gaining ground.

So frankly, Just Stop Oil is too gentle. We won't see change until people get extreme on their protests against fossil fuels.

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[-] Schmoo@slrpnk.net 37 points 1 year ago

Here's a quote from Martin Luther King that I think is very relevant:

First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."

Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

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[-] LukefromDC@kolektiva.social 28 points 1 year ago

@Ilovethebomb @ThatWeirdGuy1001 Some protests are instead designed to raise the cost of an abusive behavior so the rich ruling class will buy less of it.

Don't waste time trying to speak truth to this kind of power, speak power to oppressors instead. Make sure they understand that we can match ANY level of escalation on their part.

This is how we killed Huntingdon "Life" Sciences: the public already opposed vivisection, but vivisection was on both sides of the ballot.

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[-] Globulart@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I'm amazed at how few people realise this. I don't agree with jailing this guy but people seem to think that as long as a protest gets noticed by people it MUST be effective.

Arguing with anger makes people who are already on your side agree with you, arguing with calm and logic might actually change a few minds though.

Just Stop Oil are the former and appears to me to be doing nothing to help the effort, do they think that people believe oil is good for the planet and that they're actually making others aware of the environmental impact? Nobody is learning anything but plenty of people are getting pissed off with the cause because it's unnecessarily disruptive and furthers nothing.

Edit: you guys proved the point phenomenally. There's the people already on their side agreeing, meanwhile at least 2 commenters who are anti oil are painted like we coat penguins in it for fun in our free time. Why do so many suggest it's either JSO or ineffective sanctioned protests? Could there not be something in between? What would be so wrong with protesting directly to MPs by the houses of Parliament? You could chain yourself to whatever if you need to make a strong point, throw oil/paint/whatever at 10 downing street, do something that the decision makers will actually notice and have people talking about you favourably. Most conversations about JSO are one side saying they're fucking morons, and the other side naively echoing this chamber like that has any chance at changing anyone's mind.

Ah well, lemmy seems even less flexible than reddit did with its views, so I shouldn't be surprised. There is no room for nuance here.

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[-] Ragdoll_X@lemmy.world 90 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The UK is truly becoming a fascist hellhole.

"You're allowed to protest, but only between 5PM and 6PM and you must get a permit and also don't bother anyone or make too much noise and also you must walk at the right speed otherwise you're just being a meanie and we're going to arrest you >:("

While I think some of Just Stop Oil's previous antics were counterproductive to the public image of climate activists, arresting someone because they didn't protest "at the right speed" is ridiculous. The whole point of protests is to be disruptive and bring attention to the protesters and their cause, and this is an incredibly mild way of doing it.

[-] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 31 points 1 year ago

Also did the British government forget about the troubles? When folks cant peacefully protest shit tends to explode both metaphorically and sometimes literally. Oh wbo am I kidding the British government is full of dipshits. Give it to the inbred english aristocracy and oligarchy to repeatedly smash their dicks with a hammer.

[-] echodot@feddit.uk 22 points 1 year ago

Also did the British government forget about the troubles?

Damn right they forgot about Northern Ireland. They barely care about anywhere outside of London.

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[-] CritFail@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

Are you crazy?! 5-6pm is rush hour! No it must be 2-3am, but if any of your neighbours are woken up, they must spend six months in a re-education camp kindly funded by our BP sponsors.

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[-] febra@lemmy.world 85 points 1 year ago

Amazing. Losing democratic rights quite quickly up there in the UK, I see.

[-] chitak166@lemmy.world 54 points 1 year ago

The solution is to break the social contract on both sides.

Governments need to learn they answer to the people, not the wealthy.

[-] qdJzXuisAndVQb2@lemm.ee 26 points 1 year ago

Nothing will be accomplished without violence.

[-] chitak166@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Civil disobedience, more likely.

[-] endhits@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

Civil disobedience is what the history books say is the thing to do. Not what reality says is the thing to do.

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Civil disobedience is what they just got 6 months in jail for.

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[-] nomecks@lemmy.world 73 points 1 year ago

If you're going to get six months for slow walking then you may as well make it six months for hurling rocks at Rishi Sunak.

[-] Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee 11 points 1 year ago

I'd respect that a lot more than what they're currently doing.

[-] splonglo@lemmy.world 54 points 1 year ago

What a fucking abomination. Everyone who passed this law needs to be locked up.

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 45 points 1 year ago

Well shit at this point the British need to protest the laws around protest.

[-] RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

These people keep causing problems and inconveniencing everyone except the people that actually have the influence to do what they want.

The only thing they have accomplished is making "Just Stop" people look like clowns, and making everyone else dislike them and their message.

Just Stop Oil activists are among the worlds ultimate clowns.

[-] echo64@lemmy.world 80 points 1 year ago

Yes, it's the people who are protesting the thing that are wrong, down with them. Jail is too good for them, I saw on the news that five people were a little bit late to work that day, so obviously, we can't stand them.

Maybe you should stomach some of this contempt for the oil companies.

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[-] hubobes@sh.itjust.works 28 points 1 year ago

…but the white moderate, who is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: ‘I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action‘ …

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[-] admiralteal@kbin.social 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Or you could say these protestors are regularly getting in headlines, showing that there's an escalating culture of absolute rejection of social mores so long as major, vital changes don't happen. Creating serious problems for bureaucrats and elected officials that forces a response that often makes those officials and bureaucrats look like assholes.

The protests are factually inconveniencing and causing problems for people that have the influence to get policy changed, at least so long as democracy is functional. You aren't going to be able to protest an oil magnate. They are not accessible for protest.

Your thesis is that people will vote against climate protestors just because they were late getting to work one day. If that's correct, we may as well get out the Flavor-Aid because this world's beyond saving. Everyone needs to be reminded and thinking about this crisis. Every day. It needs to be front and center. Time is running out. We have the solutions needed to avoid catastrophe, but too many are simply not aware and thinking about how terrible the danger is and need daily reminding.

We seem to be forgetting that protests once involved burning down neighborhoods and executing rulers. Which really is what we should be doing, given the enormity of the problem. This is a more civil compromise. Don't buy into the media powers that want to turn you against anyone expressing discontent.

If the Earth Day protests happened today, the media narrative around them would be "Look at all these fuckers, on the streets, stopping me from getting to the gas station to buy a Slim Jim!" It's fucked. The attitude is fucked.

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[-] nadram@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

The time and effort you put into typing this comment, would have been better spent discussing the more important, relevant and dangerous issues you can find simply in the headline. 1- big oil has our politicians in their pockets. 2- The UK government is putting people in jail for protesting, not rioting. And so what if you're late for work? Are you so overpaid that you prioritize getting to the office on time over a protest to avoid planetary genocide? Turn off your car and join the march!!

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[-] AlwaysNowNeverNotMe@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago

Agreed they should show up to the oil executives houses drag their families out in the street and hang them from the streetlights from shortest to tallest.

What are they going to do put them in prison? The same thing they do for a slow walking.

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[-] Clbull@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

As much as I loathe the civil disobedience tactics of movements like Just Stop Oil, Insulate Britain and Extinction Rebellion; I feel like attacking our freedom to protest like this is going to backfire.

This may push such groups into radicalism because "we're going to prison anyway, may as well go all the way."

[-] Cyberjin@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
[-] chumbalumber 28 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The suffragettes put acid in postboxes, chained themselves to railings, and bombed the Chancellor of the Exchecquer's house.

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[-] aniki@lemm.ee 16 points 1 year ago

Do EVERYONE a favor and pick up a history book at least ONCE in your sad little life.

[-] Schmoo@slrpnk.net 9 points 1 year ago

The only people who say this are people who are ignorant of history. Here's a quote from Martin Luther King that I think is very relevant:

First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."

Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

[-] autotldr@lemmings.world 11 points 1 year ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


A climate activist has been jailed for six months after pleading guilty to taking part in a peaceful slow march protest on a London road.

The sentence handed to Stephen Gingell, 57, is thought to be the first jailing under a new law that critics say makes anyone walking in a road liable for prosecution for “interference with key national infrastructure”.

Gingell, a father of three from Manchester, was one of about 40 supporters of Just Stop Oil who spent about 30 minutes marching on Holloway Road in north London at about 4pm on 12 November, the climate campaign group said.

The campaign’s “guerrilla tactics” were cited by the Home Office when it introduced the Public Order Act’s tough new anti-protest measures to parliament.

Police began using section 7 to tackle Just Stop Oil’s protests at the end of October, arresting 60 people taking part in a march in Parliament Square.

A spokesperson for the campaign said: “Section 7 of the Public Order Act 2023, a law drafted by the fossil fuel lobby, was introduced in April by Priti Patel, and covers ‘interference with the use or operation of key national infrastructure’.


The original article contains 503 words, the summary contains 192 words. Saved 62%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

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