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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by aCosmicWave@lemm.ee to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml

I see the human organism as a layering of different levels of consciousness. Each layer supports mostly automated processes that sustain the layers beneath it.

For example, we have cells that only know what it’s like to be a cell and to perform their cellular processes without any awareness of the more complex layers above them. Organs are much more complex than cells and they perform their duties without any awareness of anything above them either. And the complexity keeps increasing with various systems like endocrine, cardiovascular, etc. Then we have our subconscious and finally our conscious.

At our level, we do not consciously control any of the layers beneath us. Our primary task is to keep our bodies alive.

This got me thinking… isn’t it a little too self aggrandizing to think that we have a near infinite layering of consciousness beneath us and then it just stops at our level of awareness? What if there is some other conscious process that exists above us within our own bodies?

When people take psychedelic drugs they often describe achieving a higher level of awareness akin to ecstasy. Well what if this layer is always there actively ”living” within us but we are just the chumps that go to work, do our taxes, and exercise, while it doles out just enough feel good chemicals to keep us going (sometimes not even that)?

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[-] Demonicwolf227@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

I had a challenge to this idea, but after I thought about it more I'm going to take it in a different direction.

Consciousness seems to be an emergent behavior of at least some complex systems (what systems qualify is unknown). Just sticking with my own neurons, each neuron simply reacts to the signals sent to it and then sends out it's own signal. No neuron has the full context or is necessarily even aware that it's playing part in my own consciousness. Even I don't have the full context of what's happening in my brain.

If we extrapolate this to group behaviors then we can't assume any greater consciousness is any smarter than it's parts.

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[-] DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 1 year ago

What does this higher conscious do all day? Like even if I'm unable to perceive their thoughts, surely I could see the output of their actions?

My endocrine system may not be able to perceive my tax forms, yet they exist in the same plane of existence.

Finally, there's only one layer we know of with the ability to reason.

[-] aCosmicWave@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Each system attempts to offload work to the lower systems to ensure its own health and survival. Similarly to humans using automation and technology to simplify and enhance their own lives. I don't think its out of the realm of possibility that there exists a higher version of you that is essentially experiencing heaven for the duration of your entire life while you take care of the day-to day-survival duties.

[-] Jakdracula@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Sounds a bit like the book “flatland”.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland

[-] Critical_Insight@feddit.uk 4 points 1 year ago

I don't think there's any reason to assume there's something that it's like to be an individual cell. Consciousness probably needs a certain level of ability to process information for it to emerge, and I doubt cells reach this level. I mean, they could, but I wouldn't make that assumption.

[-] c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

In order to extend the logic all humanity would be part of a hive mind.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Fun fact, the human gut has as many neurons as a cat.

Maybe they're just laid out very simply, but I don't think anyone has proof. And, apparently, after surgery your intestines will inch their way back into perfect position on their own.

That's such a weird concept, definitely a shower thought. I like the idea of it, even though it's very unlikely. We might never know... That's the same vibe as with the "we're in a simulation" theory. Hard to prove or disprove.

[-] magnetosphere@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

You do make a good point, and what you suppose is entirely possible, but personally I don’t agree with this interpretation:

…isn’t it a little too self aggrandizing to think that we have a near infinite layering of consciousness beneath us and then it just stops at our level of awareness?

Nah. I think the perspective that our awareness is the “top” is what lets us make the best of ourselves. If everyone’s attitude was “well, I’m no better than a pancreas, so fuck it” we’d all be lazy and depressed.

Still, though, I think it’s an interesting observation.

[-] ivanafterall@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

But "fuck it" does not by definition follow, even if we're pancreases. You might, for example, take pride in being a really good pancreas. And pancreases arguably have more structured purpose than most people feel--they are very definably serving a greater whole, whereas it's not always clear how we are doing so, short of intentional effort.

[-] magnetosphere@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

You’re right. I like this idea better!

[-] aCosmicWave@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

Please bear in mind that I was in a pretty negative headspace when I wrote this post yesterday! On most days, I’d wager that it is in the best interest of each higher entity to nurture and support the lower entities because they need each other to exist.

In other words I wouldn’t be able to enjoy life if my heart was in constant pain or simply gave out. Likewise, the heart would have more trouble doing its thing if I chose to never exercise, only eat fried foods, etc.

I’d like to think that each layer “desires” an equilibrium and harmony.

[-] magnetosphere@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

Hey, I was in a pretty negative headspace when I read it!

The closest comparison I can think of is being part of a job I liked. I wasn’t the boss, or part of the management team. I was at the bottom, but I knew I was good at my job and reliable. I liked the people I worked with. Not even a remotely glamorous job, but doing it well made me feel good. It didn’t matter, but it mattered, ya know?

[-] aCosmicWave@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

I do know! As my favorite job in the world thus far has been delivering Chinese food ☺️.

I hope that you’re feeling better today! Apologies if my post sent you further down into negativity yesterday.

[-] magnetosphere@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

Not at all. Everything’s cool!

[-] aCosmicWave@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Thanks! I guess my main point is that at every layer each conscious entity is not aware of the more complex conscious entity above it. If a heart knew that it works tirelessly to beat 2.5 billion times in an average lifetime only to support a (typically) ungrateful higher consciousness that gets to experience joy, happiness, flavor, touch, scent etc while the heart experiences none of it... it may consider stopping beating. It's in the best interest of the higher consciousness to keep the lower consciousness beating along for as long as possible while being essentially in the dark.

[-] magnetosphere@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

It’s probably good that we’re unaware, then. I don’t want to know what I’m missing!

[-] Thisfox@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 year ago

I find it hard to imagine being conscious but unable to control any part of your body as anything but a terrible nightmare. Shut-in would suck, higher consciousness or not.

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this post was submitted on 01 Oct 2023
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