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submitted 3 weeks ago by Sunshine@lemmy.ca to c/politics@lemmy.world
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[-] PortoPeople@lemm.ee 202 points 3 weeks ago

Once you are under dictatorship, you can't vote to hold anyone accountable. Vote for Trump and you won't have a say in what happens to Gaza. Or anything else.

[-] solsangraal@lemmy.zip 121 points 3 weeks ago

yea, but you get to brag to all the other inmates in the political prison yard that you stood up for your principles by not voting!

[-] barsquid@lemmy.world 18 points 3 weeks ago

They'll be in the same political prisons as their primary enemies, the classic liberal Dems.

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[-] Boddhisatva@lemmy.world 31 points 3 weeks ago

Exactly.

"In four years, you don't have to vote again. We'll have it fixed so good, you're not gonna have to vote." - Trump

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[-] SkyNTP@lemmy.ml 133 points 3 weeks ago

Protest voting doesn't work when the candidate you are protesting is the least worst option. Democrats that will not vote out of principle have been conned as badly as MAGA republicans. End of story.

[-] Samvega 21 points 3 weeks ago

I think you might be on to something. Maybe the system is set up to limit the power of protest voting? I mean, it does deliver two right-of-centre parties to power, over and over again.

Where the wheels are coming off is that one of them - and some people say both - are moving further rightwards, and this is destabilising society in America.

[-] OptimalHyena@lemmy.world 24 points 3 weeks ago

Some people say… Dems are generally shit but they have definitely moved left over the last decade. A lot of new people have run and while it isn’t a sure thing by any stretch, people have been able to and have the chance to continue to move the party and also just straight up infiltrate it to push it left. Whereas the repubs have been in full sprint to the right.

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[-] MyTurtleSwimsUpsideDown@fedia.io 113 points 3 weeks ago

“Gaza is not the only issue” should not be the takeaway here:

“Even on this issue [Gaza], Donald Trump and his right-wing friends are worse,” Sanders said in the six-minute video, which he posted to X. He noted that Republicans have fought to block humanitarian aid to Gaza and that Trump — who has praised Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu — has suggested Gaza would be a great site for beachfront development.

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[-] Bobmighty@lemmy.world 103 points 3 weeks ago

If you want to engage those bad faith accounts, don't respond to the Gaza thing; that's a trap. Instead, ask about other issues like climate issues, housing issues, food insecurity problems, etc. ask them what their third party candidate has planned for that and ask for evidence of these plans. They'll move goalposts and attempt to get back on Gaza. Keep them coming back to those other issues that affect Americans daily. Many of those accounts are here to derail conversation. Derail them in turn and force the conversation back on track.

Or do what I do and downvote then block, then post the occasional reminder that most of those accounts are bad faith at best.

[-] billwashere@lemmy.world 37 points 3 weeks ago

I know. I mean I’m not a huge fan of Harris’ Gaza stance. Honestly I’m not sure why it’s political at all to call what Israel is doing wrong. But come on, Trump will be 100 times worse. And that’s just on the Israel/Gaza thing. I’m not sure how you can look at these two and decide that Harris is wrong enough about the Gaza thing that you come to the conclusion that either a third party or Trump vote is warranted. Which makes me believe is not genuine and likely foreign agent spreading chaos and misinformation.

[-] lennybird@lemmy.world 24 points 3 weeks ago

It's because there is a large, internally-polled segment of the Pennsylvania electorate who are Jewish and sympathetic to Israel.

Harris can't afford to not court them.

I have no doubt she vehemently dislikes Bibi and would wish to cut aid.

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[-] BigBenis@lemmy.world 65 points 3 weeks ago

I was a Bernie-or-Bust-er in 2016 because I was confident Hilary was going to win with or without my vote. I deeply regret taking that stance and feel like I let down every woman who's lost rights to their bodily autonomy, every family who was separated at the border, everybody whose life was lost or ruined due to the Trump administration's incompetent response to the COVID-19 outbreak, and everybody else who has been harmed by the Trump administration.

Don't be like me. It sucks having to vote for the lesser of two evils but that's how our system works and not voting or voting third-party isn't going to change that but it does run the risk of things getting a lot worse.

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[-] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 65 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

The fantasy world the zero-tolerance high-ground morality angels live in is as dangerous as the one MAGA lives in, and ironically has the same victims. They proudly polish their halos nice and shiny while they let the world burn.

[-] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 46 points 3 weeks ago

Don't support genocide, it's as simple as that!

By the way: Voting isn't actually support. The American system is not set up in a way where votes actually add to the power of the Presidential office. On the other hand, making a deliberate choice not to act does mean supporting whatever happens without your action, which could be genocide. This means YOU HAVE TO VOTE HARRIS IN ORDER TO NOT SUPPORT GENOCIDE. The socialism angels are hypocrites.

[-] pyre@lemmy.world 34 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

there are two facts about this election

  1. there are only two outcomes—0.0% chance for a third party win
  2. both candidates have a bad stance on the genocide

so neither outcome will help with the genocide. acting like voting third party helps in any way shape or form is disingenuous at best. so what should you do?

my argument is that you should vote for the person you can hope to convince on this issue. phone calls, protests, social media, whatever means you have... which of these candidates is more likely to respond to any kind of public pressure about this?

Harris might be responsive, and let's be honest, she might not be. but you know for a fact that it's definitely not the fucking orange turd. Natenyahu wants him to win. how can you ignore that?

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[-] VinnyDaCat@lemmy.world 55 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Bernie is such a good guy. The Dems have done him dirty so many times, they are currently continuing to support many harmful policies but he understands what's at stake and he puts all of that aside to do the best he can.

He doesn't have to do this. He's 83 years old and while his cognitive health is outstanding for his age, someone his age doesn't need to be on this grind for us. He probably won't stop until he's forced to due to his health. I love the guy and it's a shame we weren't given the chance to see him take the presidency.

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[-] Orbituary@lemmy.world 51 points 3 weeks ago

I'm not sure why people haven't been saying this more.

[-] adespoton@lemmy.ca 26 points 3 weeks ago

I have been. It tends to get downvoted by both extremes on Lemmy.

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[-] frezik@midwest.social 18 points 3 weeks ago

It's a fundamentally uncomfortable position. The people of Gaza matter, and we can be pretty sure that Harris will continue current Biden Admin policies on it. You can't argue for the hundred other policies at stake without knowingly allowing genocide to happen with US approval.

But here's the thing: there are two very prominent Jewish people who don't believe for a second that both sides are the same. One of them is Bernie Sanders. The other is Benjamin Netanyahu.

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[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 46 points 3 weeks ago

That's a bad headline. Watch his video, he makes a much more nuanced argument.

[-] Asidonhopo@lemmy.world 45 points 3 weeks ago

Not voting for a candidate is not the only, nor the most effective way to push a party to change positions on an issue you care about.

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[-] Nougat@fedia.io 44 points 3 weeks ago

Hey look, someone finally posted an article about this so the mods don't remove it!

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[-] Clbull@lemmy.world 40 points 3 weeks ago

Anybody voting against Harris over Gaza is a moron. Trump may be even more pro Israel...

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[-] SoJB@lemmy.ml 26 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Holy hell, you liberals really have gone completely off the rocker in your corner of Lemmy, huh? I mean, Jesus Christ the shit I am reading in these comments is completely insane.

“Everyone I disagree with is a foreign agent”, say the people whose same views Israel are literally running bot farms about.

“Trump would be worse”, say the people who have admitted that the genocide of Palestine is an acceptable means to an end, as if queer folks are supposed to believe you won’t be their next tool of convenience to be discarded.

“Look at all these policy differences”, say the party who brag about being half Republicans and use their policies.

Y’all are going to lose, and it’s not going to be because of the 100 US leftists on Lemmy.

I’m sure you’ll blame us anyway though, because liberals have objectively abandoned reality.

Look at yourselves. You’ve become MAGA, and don’t even try to deny it. This is the shit you made fun of Republicans for doing for 4 years of Trump. I thought Democracy was about winning votes, not demanding them under threats of violence? Or is this another one of PugJesus’ cronies?

[-] TheObviousSolution@lemm.ee 26 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Ok gaslighter

Yeah, the US elections have a high chance of losing, largely due to large disinformation campaigns not unlike the one your comment forms a part of.

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[-] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 19 points 3 weeks ago

Holy hell, you liberals really have gone completely off the rocker in your corner of Lemmy, huh? I mean, Jesus Christ the shit I am reading in these comments is completely insane.

Nice one komrad! These stupid Americans can't fathom how far we can move the goalposts!

“Everyone I disagree with is a foreign agent”, say the people whose same views Israel are literally running bot farms about.

Da! DA! Sprinkle the truth in so they can't use it against us! This is why you make the best borscht!

“Trump would be worse”, say the people who have admitted that the genocide of Palestine is an acceptable means to an end, as if queer folks are supposed to believe you won’t be their next tool of convenience to be discarded.

Putin will be proud of your efforts komrad, I'm sure of it. Not only did you defend komrad Trump, but you tossed in a genocide grenade! These dumb Americans can't see through the web of lies you weave. It's truely an art from you. You even managed to attack the homosexuals, god bless you!

Oh blyat! I did not realize this is a public channel!

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[-] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 25 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Gaza is hardly even an issue on the ballot, you're picking between slow genocide and fast genocide.

[-] lurklurk@lemmy.world 22 points 3 weeks ago

Slow genocide is better though. We all get that right?

[-] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 24 points 3 weeks ago

Certainly gives us more time to try to do something about it, yeah.

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[-] Samvega 23 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Is this going to be American politics for the rest of time: continually voting for least worst of two options which will cause observable harm?

If yes, it would be nice if that changes at some point, thanks.

[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 31 points 3 weeks ago

Support single transferable vote ranked choice voting if you want more options.

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[-] theuniqueone@lemmy.dbzer0.com 22 points 3 weeks ago

Stop pretending Harris also doesn't have absolutely horrible immigration, environmental and police policies as well.

[-] EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com 17 points 3 weeks ago

No politically viable candidate will have environmental policies sufficient to properly address climate change. We are so unbelievably behind the 8-ball on this.

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[-] Sundial@lemm.ee 18 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Someone running for office should not be entitled to a vote simply because the opposition is bad. Even if they're as bad as Trump. I wish more people demanded better from their leaders, it would stop this ridiculous slide to the right the entire American political system has been going though for decades.

[-] jordanlund@lemmy.world 32 points 3 weeks ago

You fix that by pushing for ranked choice balloting, until then, it's your job to get the least objectionable person elected, which in this case is Harris.

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[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 17 points 3 weeks ago

America voting for the lesser evil since 1792.

It's not the time to stop now. But I better see all of you on the streets with signs on November 6th.

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this post was submitted on 29 Oct 2024
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