I am 51, bi, and to this day I am not comfortable discussing my sexuality. I don't think young people understand how different things are now when compared to just fifteen years ago.
Yeah, I'm in my 30s and I remember how wildly different it was when I was young. There's still a lot to be done but seeing the general shift toward acceptance is nice (where I am at least).
Yeah I'm in my 40's and nonbinary, but I didn't really understand it until relatively recently. I've always known I didn't fit into my assigned gender, but nobody knew what the fuck "nonbinary" was in the 80's (let alone here in Finland, which is still really conservative compared to the saner Nordics) so naturally I just got beat up for being different. I even dressed in gender-conforming ways but I didn't act the part well enough so people naturally needed to correct that with more violence.
The conservative pieces of shit who insist that all these "new genders" and sexual orientations are just a recent invention and in the good old days men were men and women were women are the same ones who were beating us up and even killing us just a few decades ago (not that they've stopped doing that…)
I didn't just suddenly decide to become an enby; I've always been one, but I didn't even have the words for any of this until this stuff became more mainstream. And then they have the gall to act like this is all a choice, like I'd fucking choose to be something that means bigots will literally want to murder me for it. First they insist that I'm not doing my assigned gender right and I'm not a real {GENDER}, and then when I finally say "you know what, you're completely right, I'm not". Can't fucking win with them, can we?
kiitos, kun olet ❤
I came out when I was 14 - 26 years ago (albeit as bisexual, because I didn't know the right words yet) and I felt safe enough to do it because I knew my parents would be supportive, but in the broader world, what I mostly got was, "you're saying that for attention," and a lot of gross comments from teenage boys, and that was far less awful than what queer boys got, if they were even able to be out. And then Matthew Shepard was killed the next year a couple of hours from where I lived and it was like oh fuck, maybe I'll just stick to boys because it's not as safe as I thought.
I know kids aren't always safe now, either, and no one in the LGBTQ+ community is safe in many parts of the world, but it really is so different already. We just have to make sure they know how much better it is, and how much better it still could be, and don't get complacent, because we could be back to hiding the love(s) of our lives very quickly.
Certain people want it to go back to the way it was: stay in the closet, or die. I'm not kidding.
So you remember when the worst insult you could call a man was "F@g." I do. Not idiot, or moron, or dumbass. "F@g."
That's still burned into my brain. I don't say it, but when I'm angry, it's right there on the tip of my tongue.
I am gay. I have a gay friend who uses that term in a "taking it back" sense.
I love my friend and respect him but it hurts so bad it's to hear that. It's honestly triggering to me because it reminds me of middle and high school.
I wish he wouldn't use that term but maybe it is okay if we really are taking it back.
I have talked to some elder gays who seem to feel the same way about other terms like "lesbian" so maybe it really is a generational aversion to the slur of the time.
I don't like feeling genuinely upset but I am willing to endure it if it means progression for LGBTQIA+ ppl.
Anyone who has a thought about this pls reply. Would really love to hear non-straight folks opinions on it, but even willing to hear straight folks opinions as long as they are respectful and non-violent. ♥️
Queer person checking in. I too dislike the F-slur because like you say, it takes me back to the worst periods of my life when that was the worst thing you could call a person.
When I was a kid, the common way to express that you didn't like something was to call it gay. And usually it had nothing to do with gayness either, it'd be like "You signed up for soccer instead of hockey? That's pretty gay." "Math class is gay." "Homework is gay."
Even before I knew I was queer that bothered me. And the funny thing was if you called someone out for it, they'd weasel out of it by saying they didn't have anything against gay people, you just call things gay if you don't like them. They just didn't see how that was wrong which made it even more frustrating to me. Like, they admit that gay = bad but then say they have nothing against gays? Well, what more can you expect from children?
Nowadays it doesn't seem like things being gay is so bad. I've definitely proudly called things gay, and it feels like the word 'gay' is being taken back. So with time maybe that can happen with the F-slur, but for me now it's still a super triggering thing.
At least gay has some positive etymological history as well as negative. F-- only has two meanings, and the vastly more common one is incredibly violent. The only thing I've seen remotely close to trying to "take that word back" is maybe Martin in the Simpsons in a throw-away gag about his pure nerdy naivete. And that's not particularly close.
I think I remember that bit, Martin was trying to convince us that "apes together strong" but the boys weren't having it. He used the two-syllable pronunciation too, which I'd relate to using the N-word with a hard R.
I don't really relate that bit to "taking the word back" though because I guess I don't think of Martin as being gay. I mean, he's 10 years old so he probably isn't really anything yet. Then again, he is often shown to be effete and I'm sure some of the kids have called him gay before.
To me that joke was all about shock factor. It was like saying "Hey, look at this dirty word we just got away with saying on television! It's not dirty because we used it correctly, instead of the way you expect to hear it!"
Ok, if I may make a jovial tangent for a moment: I love that you used the phrase “elder gays”. It evokes imagery of this high council of gays where they hold tribunals and wear robes, and have stereotypically gay music playing in the background as if it were your own version of Gregorian chants echoing through the hallowed halls of gaydom.
That would be so epic. And yes, I have adhd. 😁
I feel like it's been taken back for a while already. A gay community in the states has a dance party they call "f@g bash" which made me wince the first time I heard it. But if anyone has a problem with it I haven't heard about it and it's been ongoing for several years.
I’ve had to hear the F-slur at EVERY ONE of my workplaces. I’m middle aged and in tech. Makes me want to cry…
At the funeral of some homophobe straight man who finally gets a taste of his own medicine 💅
“Last one in the pool is gay!”
Exactly. Or when something is considered weak, or lame, or effeminate... "Gay."
Everything that wasn’t Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sylvester Stallone, Clint Eastwood, Chuck Norris, et all, was considered effeminate: “gay”. Using words like “effeminate “: “gay”. Guys piercing anything other than their left ear: “gay”. Not being cool: “gay”.
Yep. I lived as a teenager through that era. It was all pervasive on the male identity.
If you go through my posting history, you'll see that I know a guy who is my age who is still stuck in that mindset. He's 53, but still likes to brag aobut fistfights in his 20's, and presents this "I'm the most Badass who ever Badassed in history" persona that was normal at the time. It's like he's still 15 in his mind, which he certainly is. It's pathetic.
He also still thinks Hair Metal is the best music ever made, Steven Seagal is a badass, and everything in life can be broken down into the dichotomy of it's either BADASS or PUSSY. It's interesting if it wasn't so annoying, and obnoxious. I used to feel sorry for the guy, but over time learned it's just malignant narcissism and psychopathy. It's a good thing he's mostly all mouth, or he would've been at Charlottesville or the Capitol on Jan 6. It wouldn't surprise me if he eventually shot some place up, because of the "Blue Haired Feminazis and the Libcucks." Because Fox, Matt Walsh, and Ben Shapiro told him what to think.
A schoolmate used to say "If you do X, you are gay". Every time he said that, i did X
Queerphobia is still baked into our language. These days it's all the rage to call people "narcissist" as an insult. Narcissus the Greek boy was put to death by the gods for not dating anyone. The word is aphobic and pedophilic.
The story is that he was so vain that he fell in love with, or was so horny for, his own reflection that he died.
Some versions have him starving to death because looking at himself was a higher priority that eating, others have him kill himself because he couldn't marry/fuck himself. Nothing to do with him "not dating anyone".
I think he was a teen in the story, but since no one was fucking, I am not so sure it was pedophillic
Aww, you're so clever. Cute. You're that "Well, actually..." contrarian, aren't you? See how that works out for.
That is absolutely not why people use narcissist as an insult. Like bro what are you smoking.
What a wild take. Have you read the story recently?
It’s odd how much things change and how much they stay the same. An interesting, difficult to notice language shift amongst kids is the complete absence of context for some pejorative uses of “gay.” For instance, the catchall rejection “no way, that’s gay” would elicit confusion first and possibly indignation after. However, other pejorative uses of “gay” still exist, for instance conflating homosexuality with femininity, with femininity having a negative connotation. It’s a partial extinction of meaning and I kinda love it.
All of that to say, the future is looking up in select ways and I’m all about those minuscule victories.
I'm noticing quite the same with vegetarianism. I became vegetarian around 15 years ago, when it was still a marginalized group of people. Somehow also particularly as a man, my eating habits felt like a personal affront to other men, at least based on their reaction.
I generally don't tell people these days, if I can avoid it, despite having had multiple colleagues that were openly vegetarian/vegan. Like, at one point, I felt like the outsider, because I had three veggie colleagues discussing veggie food and I felt like I couldn't participate without blowing my cover, so to speak.
Fucking ridiculous, the amount of emotional abuse one goes through, for not wanting to eat meat or liking humans.
I'm in my early 50's, and knew 2 Vietnam era vets who were gay, but had to pretend to be straight back when being gay could literally get you put in prison. As a matter of fact, one of them was dishonorably discharged from the Marines for being gay, and did go to prison. Both had married women, and had kids.
I don't think Republicans are content with prison anymore. They want to make it punishable by death.
Except when it's someone they're related to. Or they like to hangout in rest stop bathrooms, themselves.
They probably don't care either way, as long as it makes the gay go away.
For young LGBT+ people in conservative cultures, hiding is still a reality. Only dumbass conservative would be surprised that there are “more” gay people in places where such a thing is not punishable by hospitalization or death
There's a fairly well-known story that illustrates this that I'll paraphrase here.[1, 2]
A Redditor thought that he was being homophobic towards his gay roommate because he got mad whenever he saw his roommate with other guys. Fast forward a couple of days and after discussing this with several Redditors and his sister he finds out that what he's feeling isn't homophobia, but rather jealousy. Eventually him and his roommate talk it out and they end up in a relationship.
Had this happened a couple decades earlier their story would have likely gone very differently. For starters the gay roommate probably wouldn't have been out about being gay and might have been acting in a more stereotypically "straight" manner to not raise suspicion. Had the straight guy found out that his roommate was gay there would be a higher chance that he was homophobic, and even if he wasn't he'd be far less likely to question his own sexuality after thinking of himself as straight for his entire life. Their story only ended the way it did because they live in a time where homophobia is less prevalent in society.
As societal acceptance increases more people who experience same-sex attraction and gender dysphoria are willing to explore and adopt a non-heterosexual and/or trans identity, and more people are willing to tell that to a pollster as well.
The life expectancy of queer people also appears to be smaller for a variety of reasons, although the gap with cishet people seems to have reduced over time.
Oh, the homophobia is still there. A man recently murdered his Uber driver because he thought the driver was taking him a secret Homosexual Society to indoctrinate him. Schizophrenia may have had something to do with it, but maybe not.
https://www.nydailynews.com/2024/05/17/atlanta-cop-lyft-driver-gay-fraternity-recruit/
I'm in Australia, and "gay panic" was still a reasonable defence in having a charge of murder downgraded to manslaughter until four years ago in my state.
Bawling my eyes out for Edward. Honestly makes me sick. It's okay to be gay or not straight or anything in between.
Also, HIV.
We can thank conservatives for making sure as many gays died as possible during the AIDS epidemic. I remember them openly celebrating that "God's Will" was being enacted on earth as Reagan worked hard to stop any research, education or prevention from taking place.
Conservatives are a vulgar, sadistic, demented kind of evil. There is no place in a modern society for hate-based ideologies like conservatism.
Relevant
I’m in the closet. I’ve only told a small group of friends who are enough degrees of separation away from my family that I don’t need to worry too much about it getting out. I haven’t told my family or most of my friends, considering that a mistake would result in that side of my family knowing. I’m bi and probably nonbinary.
I have some very bigoted family, fuck em. I don’t mind burning bridges with them, even though it would hurt for a little while. This family has cheered for the deaths of queer people, such as Nix Benedict. They have supported calls for genocide against queers, they have a huge amount of bigotry.
However, about 10-12 years ago, there was a debate over the existence of queer people in my family, regarding a string of current events about lgbt rights. My grandma, was the only person on that side of the US who supported the right for queer people to exist. My bigoted family was so upset that they just cut her out. She was blocked by that side of the family on social media, they’d drop her calls, and wouldn’t visit. My grandma was devastated. After the death of my grandfather, she was even more isolated, having nobody within 400 miles who would talk to her. Though she met up with the whole family to mourn for the funeral, she was still isolated for another month after it, until things healed a few months later and she was able to talk with that side of the family again.
I refuse to be the person who is the wedge in my family. I know my grandma good enough that she would still love and support me as a queer person, but I refuse to cause another split in my family that would harm my already very lonely and isolated grandma.
Even as an otherwise militant queer who had no problem coming out in a rough area like where I used to live, I draw the line on harming vulnerable people like my grandma. I just hate this situation so much.
I, late-50s straight cis man, found out that a man that I had worked with for 20 years was gay. I had never given his sexual preference and thought and didn't care either way. His boyfriend asked me not to say anything at work because he wasn't out. I said I wouldn't.
That year we invited them to our Christmas party. The boyfriend came but the guy from work didn't. The boyfriend said that he didn't come because he was afraid that people from work would be there find out.
I talked to him a couple of months later and told him that he should come out. I told him that people at work would say either, "I know/I suspected" or, "I don't care I just want you to process this paperwork." Later he told me that he had come out at work and that I was exactly right about people's reactions.
Being closeted to your family is extremely stressful. I hope you find a way to come out and that they accept you.
My daughter came out to me several years ago. I love her more than life itself.
The correct answer (if you were me): Tell the entire family to suck my rainbow-spangled cock, flip 'em every single bird, and get a place together with grandma in SoCal, but not before going on the most epic road trip imaginable. There is a movie script here, I can feel it.
I love it
Hating somone because of who they love is such a mean and cruel thing.
This feels both tragically sad yet oddly heartwarming. He feared coming out his whole life, yet despite that he spent 25 happy years with his partner.
Idk about the heartwarming part In very few places would his job be safe How many friends would have dumped him, family, etc? I too am glad he got to have a partner but when do you think they got to have any romantic dinner? Hold hands in public? Kinda sick of the well-meaning stuff, which is also condescending.
I mean, sorry to make you feel bad about what you feel is sympathy. I really do hate shitting on someone’s good feelings. But maybe reconsider “heartwarming” :/
I can see the tragedy and the beauty in the situation at the same time. He spent 25 years with someone he loved, despite adverse circumstances. That's beautiful and heartwarming.
He had to keep that love, and a big part of himself a secret until he died. That is a tragedy. Both things can be true at the same time.
No. I stand by what I said.
Cool 👌
I had a hard time understanding how pride helped people, even as a trans woman.
Like even (nearly) one year I to my transition I still fail to present differently in public because of the shame, I have a hard time with people already and this is a lot, this ruined my motivation to do anything feminine (what's the point of trying I'll never look good blah blah) I'm still a bit like this to some extent, but I went to my first pride parade and I'm absolutely stunned, I saw some drag queens and even though they are cis men they manage to look good, they were unapologetic and proud of who they were, and THIS HELPS, heck seing other transfem IRL makes me understand that were all going through something similar and if we wish to be happy and fulfilled we should be out no matter where we are into our transition, it's honestly making me consider coming out to my friends. Because now I see that I'm not a freak and a good amount of ppl are like me.
Also I found out that the cute "male" cashier was probably a trans woman and she looks really good, I'm happy for "him". :)
This strike hard. It is so sad to have people hide who they are all their life. 😢
