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submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by ronaldtemp1@lemmy.world to c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world

Why YSK?

The first person who typed "should of" probably heard of it in real life that was meant to be "should've", they typed "should of" online and readers thought that it's grammatically correct to say "should of" which is in fact wrong and it became widespread throughout the years on Reddit.

I hope something could start to change.

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[-] hardypart@feddit.de 118 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I'm not a grammar nazi, but "should of" is driving me up the wall.

[-] ronaldtemp1@lemmy.world 23 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I know right, I know people make careless grammatical mistakes all the time, including me, which is completely fine but people outright thought that "should of" is correct and use it all the time starts to get annoying

[-] Today@lemmy.world 12 points 2 years ago

Same! I rather see shoulda than should of.

[-] MedicPigBabySaver@sopuli.xyz 6 points 2 years ago

Don't crash to the floor. That'd hurt.

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[-] Art3sian@lemmy.world 60 points 2 years ago

Nice one. Who’d’ve guessed.

[-] quantumantics@lemmy.world 26 points 2 years ago

I wouldn't've, that's for sure!

[-] Anarch157a@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago

As a non-native speaker, that hurts !!!

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[-] denemdenem@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

😱 You are triggering my fear of more than 1 apostrophes in a word

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[-] Lemmyin@lemmy.world 45 points 2 years ago
[-] MigratingApe@lemmy.world 21 points 2 years ago

Isn’t it actually “For Fuck’s sake”?

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[-] ronaldtemp1@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago

lol I remember reading this on Quora

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[-] addie@feddit.uk 37 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Not wanting to be purposefully controversial, but language is a tool for communication and as long as it's understood by the target audience, then I'd say it was used effectively.

The English language doesn't have a governing body (unlike say French and Spanish) and so whatever we agree on is correct usage. "Grammatically incorrect" has long been a dog-whistle signifier for elitism (you don't have the expensive education to know what's correct) and racism (the local dialect that you speak isn't our 'prestige' version, therefore you are inferior) and I don't really like to see it. Even when those aren't your intentions when correcting people, it still rankles with me.

Not that I'd write 'should of' on my CV or anything, but it doesn't offend me any on an internet forum.

[-] a_rational_llama@lemm.ee 36 points 2 years ago

and as long as it's understood by the target audience

Duy'ou-ndarstend Diz?

Understanding written text is more difficult when the existing established conventions that impart meaning are ignored.

Sure, those conventions evolve over time, some errors are worse than others, and no one's going to write perfectly all the time. But that doesn't mean anything goes and the writer has no responsibility to write clearly and correctly.

[-] ronaldtemp1@lemmy.world 21 points 2 years ago

Agree with you wholeheartedly

I perfectly understand "Duy’ou-ndarstend Diz?" but I really would not want to read this over and over again.

Of course, I don't aim to change everyone, you do you. I just want to use the opportunity to say there is a difference between "should have" and "should of".

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[-] RagingSnarkasm@lemmy.world 18 points 2 years ago

Wait, my 6th grade English teacher was a racist? That explains a lot.

[-] ronaldtemp1@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago

Thanks for the info about French and Spanish governing bodies. TIL

[-] Confuzzeled@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago

What I'm hearing is we need to set up some kind of formal governing body to properly enforce the grammar rules of English. Maybe Hugo boss could make some uniforms.

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[-] MedicPigBabySaver@sopuli.xyz 6 points 2 years ago

Ha, "rankles". (⁠✿⁠☉⁠。⁠☉⁠)

[-] berkeleyblue@lemmy.world 31 points 2 years ago

I’m certainly no grammar freak and English also isn’t my native language but this deives me insane… Same with your vs you’re… it’s soooo easy…

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[-] Sonemonkey@lemmy.world 28 points 2 years ago

"Should of" is bone apple tea material.

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[-] ndr@lemmy.world 28 points 2 years ago

Typing "should of" is a sign of failing to understand the basics of English grammar.

[-] blackbelt352@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Eh, it's just shifting of how written work is relfective our spoken word. It's pretty rare for me to use a stronger "ah" sound when saying "would have" most of the time defaulting to a softer schwa sound, which sounds almost exactly how how "of" sounds. English has been changing and evolving for centuries. There's even major epochs like the great vowel shift. Hell if Shakespeare were around today and making the drastic changes to the english language like he did back then he'd be crucified by internet prescriptivists for using English improperly.

If you'd like something a bit more modern, Mark Twain broke english rules all the time in his writings and he's considered one of, if not, the greatest American writers.

[-] ndr@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago

I'm sorry but it doesn't fully work here. 'of' phonetically should not be spelled with a 'f', so they are already using a word that is not pronounced as it is written, might as well use "would've", which removes the part that isn't pronounced as it was traditionally "ha-", but at least it's still correct.

They use 'of' because they don't understand (or pay attention to) the grammar of what they're saying.

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[-] gigachad@feddit.de 22 points 2 years ago

Even as a non native speaker "should of" feels really weird to me, it just doesn't make sense. Is this a mistake English speakers do as well?

[-] raresbears 19 points 2 years ago

Pretty sure it's actually one of those mistakes that is made more often by native speakers than non-native speakers

[-] KiofKi@feddit.de 13 points 2 years ago

It's like theyre/theire/they're - in my experience it's mostly native speakers confusing them.

[-] ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.de 7 points 2 years ago

Yeah, I’ve seen have in textbooks way more than ’ve and it’s baked into my brain... This mistake only happens if you hear the word before seeing it written.

[-] DesGrieux@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 years ago

It's because "should've" and "should of" are pronounced the same. It doesn't make sense because they're just writing what they hear instead of thinking "I'm using the contraction of the auxiliary verb 'have'"..

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[-] Exi@lemmy.world 18 points 2 years ago
[-] s38b35M5@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago

My in-laws and I have a Signal group where we share fun spellings and pronunciations. We call it "udder mayham." It's fun.

I could care less.

This one is popular.

[-] TurboDiesel@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago

udder mayham

That's an eggcorn right?

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[-] nieceandtows@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago

Crazy thing is, it’s getting widespread acceptance, and will probably accepted as grammatically correct in a few years.

[-] kabe@lemmy.world 12 points 2 years ago

A bit like how putting "would" in a third conditional if-clause has become standard in US English ("We wouldn't have been late if we would have taken a taxi").

I know language evolves but it doesn't stop my left eye from twitching whenever I hear it.

[-] axtualdave@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago

Not until the definition of the word "of" changes. It is not a synonym for the word "have," nor will be anytime soon.

Perhaps, when speaking, accent, mush-mouthed laziness, or plain ignorance will confuse "should have" and "should of", but one is objectively correct, and one is not.

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[-] erisir@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago

language is full of idiosyncrasies like this (my favorite is an ekename -> a nekename -> a nickname. see Wikipedia). it's perfectly conceivable that should have would be fully re-analyzed in speech like that, so the proper form of the verb to have would become of after should

[-] Chaser@sopuli.xyz 10 points 2 years ago

Same deal with the word "Apron". It started out as napron, so people would say a napron which turned into an apron

[-] SpezCanLigmaBalls@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago

Damn I should of known this

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[-] raresbears 14 points 2 years ago

ITT: Awful linguistics takes

[-] lenguen@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago

Golly, I should of known that

[-] Black616Angel@feddit.de 8 points 2 years ago
  • Golly, eye should of noun that
[-] toxicbubble@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago
[-] gyrodaddy@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 years ago

I had a professor who would use “should of” in speech, probably because he read it so much and internalized it as being correct.

[-] Bautznersenf@feddit.de 7 points 2 years ago
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[-] h34d@feddit.de 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

While it is true that "should of" etc. can easily originate from a confusion between "'ve'" and unstressed "of", which sound identical, the statement

"Should of" is incorrect

itself is at least a bit misleading and prescriptivist in its generality.

Interestingly, there seem to be at least some native English speakers who genuinely do say "should of" (with a stressed "of") sometimes. This paper for example argues that people who say "should of" really do use a grammatical construction of the form modal verb + of + past participle. One argument the author mentions is that this would also explain the words "woulda", "coulda" and "shoulda", since "of"->"a" is quite common in general (e.g. "kind of" -> "kinda"), but "'ve"->"a" basically doesn't occur elsewhere (e.g. no one says "I'a" or "you'a" instead of "I've" or "you've"). Another is that the reverse mistake, i.e. using "'ve'" in place of "of" (e.g. "kind've"), is much rarer, which is a clear difference to e.g. the situation with "they're"/"their"/"there", where people use these words in place of the others in all combinations frequently. I recommend this blog article for a much longer discussion.

Also, whether genuine mistake (which it almost certainly is in many cases, although probably not all) or different grammatical construction, YSK that "should of" etc. didn't just become popular recently, but have been used for centuries. E.g. John Keats wrote in a letter in 1814: "Had I known of your illness I should not of written in such fiery phrase in my first Letter.". Many more examples (some older as well) can be found e.g. here or here.

TL;DR: While in many cases "should of" etc. can well be a mistake, originating from the fact that it sounds identical to "should've" when unstressed, there is some interesting linguistic evidence that at least in some dialects of English native speakers really do say "should of" etc. (i.e. in those cases it is not a mistake, merely non-standard/dialectal).

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this post was submitted on 14 Jun 2023
684 points (100.0% liked)

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