I have come here for a climate demonstration, not a political view
What he really means is that he only wants to hear about one slice of a political view, or he doesn't understand that climate change is a political subject too.
I have come here for a climate demonstration, not a political view
What he really means is that he only wants to hear about one slice of a political view, or he doesn't understand that climate change is a political subject too.
He probably means he disagrees with her about this issue and didn't show up to support a pro-Palestine rally.
I've been told that if your protest isn't disruptive, it's not really a protest, so I'm sure everyone here will be fully understanding and supportive of this guy for standing up for his beliefs /s
Not all beliefs are created equal. You can respect people without respecting their beliefs.
I'm gonna get downvoted for this but this is just wrong.
Climate change is science, not politics. We are trying to address it from multiple angles at the aame time (such as political angles, scientific angles, lifestyle angles, etc)
So the fight to make our politicians accept that climate change is sceince and not politics is, ironically, a political fight but climate change and the movments to stop it are not only political.
Climate Change is, yes.
But the policies to combat it are not.
No it's not! Fighting climate change can be addressed as legitimate issue to fix from both sides of the political spectrum. Talking about the gaza conflict and picking an arbitrary side, does nothing except, drive potential fff supporters away. People will hate Greta and everything she stands for even more. Only for virtue signaling points on social media.
Nah. She is spot on when she says that a movement for climate justice cannot ignored the marginalized, the oppressed, and those fighting for justice and freedom.
Those who would hate her for being anti-genocide and anti-apartheid are already very unlikely to be allies to the climate justice movement, a movement that highlights the way that impoverished peoples and nations, especially non-white non-european equatorial and global south nations, are uniquely suffering the consequences of climate change.
As Hbomb said, "People who say they don't like politics in games actually like politics in games the most, they just wish they were seeing different politics in games, and that's who Caesar's Legion is here to stroke off!"
She's never been afraid to speak her mind. How do we address the issue of climate change, if we turn a blind eye to the suffering of innocent people and children done intentionally for vengeance's sake?
War is terrible for the climate. All that extra fuel burning, and in machines not designed to do it efficiently
Not to mention all the destruction of farms, the poisoning of water sources, all the destroyed vehicles and rotting corpses of men and animals alike laid everywhere.
They will be calling this the 2nd Nakba. Not only is it a massacre of the people, the Palestinians last remaining lands have been salted. Gaza looks like Stalingrad.
It is an entirely man made disaster. Or state made disaster if you will.
I don't think this was a smart Move to mix these two issues. Israel & Palestine are so extremely polarizing and mixing this with climate might divide the People and weaken the fight for a green future. For example I would rather avoid that topic. I don't know enough about Palestine/Israel to publicly debate it. And if my climate-rally somehow turns to pro Palestine or pro Israel I would rather abstain from visiting it. Because I dont have a solid View on this topic. And I think I might not be alone with this feeling.
and people told MLK Jr. similar things when he spoke out against the Vietnam War. Activists fundamentally fight for justice, and as King said, "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." It might make sense in the short term to look the other way and conform, but when something so terrible happens due to actions from a western ally, it's good in the long term to have principles.
Activists don't need to be one-track minded. They rarely are. I'm a vegan, socialist, anti-fascist who is against the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and for climate justice globally. There's very strong overlap in these positions. There's a reason you won't find a lot of Republican vegans, or pro-Israel socialists.
Yes, sometimes people don't put in the time to investigate these issues, and I commend you for knowing the limits of your own knowledge, I've recommended to people before that it's better to just say "I don't know enough about this issue" instead of arriving at an under-researched position. However, it's not necessary to criticize people who are actually activists, learn about these issues, and go out into the world and advocate for change, so long as they're advocating for the right thing.
The topic being brought up might ostracize people, but it will also put the topic into people's minds. People like you might not know what the correct position is here, but you hear the constant pro-Israel propaganda pumped out by the U.S and might arrive at a subconscious conclusion that aligns with the imperial core.
If you hear people speaking out against the apartheid state of Israel, especially people who align with your values, you might be inclined to look into it more, or at the very least not automatically accept U.S propaganda on the issue.
I have to disagree, the activists that really get things done do have a one-track mind, because it takes a lot of energy, money, and time to make any progress in just one issue. You can certainly care about many things, but you can't go to every conference, cover every issue in your speech, raise money for every cause, etc.
Again. It creates divergence and weakens the awareness for the core Issue of this specific rally and might drive people away from it.
EDIT: Btw. it's pretty bold of you to assume you know what "the right thing" is especially on such an highly complex and diverse topic like Israel/Gaza.
I think the far left and far right have a similar problem here, in that you have to be "all in" on the group's talking points, for danger of being ostracised by your peers.
Muddling up these two issues is so very stupid ... just keep the climate message on climate, how fucking hard is that?
The driving force of climate change is the same reason for the military industrial complexe. Profits over people will always lead to these outcomes. You gotta be able to acknowledge and discuss this stuff.
It didn't seem like she was opposing the military industrial complex in general so much as she was opposing Israel specifically, showing solidarity with those in opposition to them, and implying they are oppressors opposed to freedom and justice.
Shes not wrong.
Hamas are terrorists but the Israeli government's hands are far from clean. You cant kill 10,000 palestinians in a matter of weeks, half of which are children, and maintain the moral high ground. And that is ignoring how modern Israel came about through the displacement of millions.
Who has the moral high ground in this conflict is a matter of opinion, you might be surprised what you would support if you and your loved ones were under constant threat of violence with no end in sight. Hamas has leveraged public distaste for civilian casualties quite effectively, maximizing it by hiding among them, and leaving Israel without other viable strategies to depose them.
I find myself far more sympathetic to Israel's cause because they weren't the ones that provoked this, their opponents clearly have less concern for civilian lives than they do but simply lack the means, Palestinian factions openly advocate for genocide of Jews, and have remained belligerent and unwilling to sue for viable peace for the last 70 years despite having lost every war they've waged on Israel. Israel has historically shown a great deal of restraint dealing with them for a very long time, but each wanton massacre moves them closer to seeking safety at any cost, even if that cost is many civilian lives.
It's easy to feel sympathy for the underdog, but in this case, the underdog is explicitly genocidal, expects to be treated differently than they treat their opponents, which they constantly provoke with guerrilla attacks, while remaining unwilling to compromise for peace. I'm at a loss as to what other options are available to Israel that provides them meaningful safety without sacrificing their own people or national sovereignty.
you might be surprised what you would support if you and your loved ones were under constant threat of violence with no end in sight.
Congratulations, you understand Hamas.
Israel exists because millions were displaced from their homes to create it. Settlers continually encroach further. And everyone that lived there is supposed to roll over and let it happen with no resistance whatsoever. Then there's the current situation which is to put it lightly, a humanitarian disaster. Over a million gazans were essentially told to flee to the south or risk being bombed. And dont get me started on how journalists are being treated. Do not give me this poor innocent Israel horseshit.
It's seriously hard to take anything pro-Israel seriously knowing that they have a state-sponsored crowdsourced propaganda project where people undertake missions to spread pro-Israel propaganda, and smear Palestine.
Like for all we know your comment could've come straight from ACT-IL
What funny is both issue are extremely linked.
Earlier this year, Isreal sign an agreement with Lebanon to help explore the area for gas and oil.
Isreal anounced a new middle East to supply eroupe with gas.
Iareal on October 19 or around ot awarded 12 companies the ability to explore gas and oil in the region.
The only thing that was stopping them is Hamas.
The expected value goes over 400 billion in the last few years, as expressed in a report by the UN about the gas field there.
What funny is both issue are extremely linked.
They are not. It's a tiny region of the world and it's ridiculous to even bring a climate consideration into such a conflict.
The only thing that was stopping them is Hamas.
Yes, and Hitler really liked dogs and Nazis did a lot for animal welfare. Fuck off.
Lol i searched "Hamas Gas Isreal" to find the article a while back saying how they can't work in the region because of hamas and guess what I find?
1 Hour ago:
Chevron Restarts Gas Production on Platform Near Gaza Strip
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/13/world/middleeast/chevron-israel-tamar-gas.html
Imagine thinking the Middle East, a "tiny region" which also just so happens to be where more than half of all oil used on Earth comes from, is irrelevant to the discussion of climate change.
You probably wouldn't be so angry if you weren't having to bend over backwards to make nonsensical arguments like this to defend your nonsensical opinions.
Seriously, no matter which side she takes, she's going to lose a lot of support.
Good job by Greta by addressing the elephant in the room first. Nobody is going to take the moral police seriously while the west is supporting genocide. Any climate change protest already comes off as massive virtue signaling right now.
The entire point of preventing climate change is so humanity can continue to exist. The earth can exist without us. If we're gonna start a third world War right now you can forget about the 2050 stuff.
The linked article even fails to mention what exactly was "pro Palestinian" in the address - there's zero quotes. Shitty journalism.
Also, you can be "pro Palestinian" without being "anti Israel" - although a lot of shit-for-brains populists try to deny that these days.
Both hamas and israel are commiting big no nos against each other. It's very hard to even pick a side at this point because both have valid arguments and none are innocent.
Don't both sides this. Israel has slaughtered 5000 kids and killed more civilians in a month than Putin did in Ukraine in over two years. It is deliberately targeting hospitals schools and ambulances and failing to distinguish civilians from combatants. Israeli politicians have repeatedly used dehumanizing language and called for ethnic cleansing. They have told proven lies about human shields while publicly bragging about how they are destroying Gaza.
Strawman bullshit. This post is not about siding with Hamas, no one in their sane mind does that. Palestinians do not equal Hamas, the same way that Israelis do not equal Jews or vice versa.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Greta Thunberg was interrupted as she addressed a climate protest in Amsterdam on Sunday after inviting a Palestinian and an Afghan woman on stage.
The Swedish activist was speaking to a crowd of tens of thousands in the Dutch capital before the country heads to the polls in a general election next week.
Earlier proceedings had been interrupted as a small group of activists at the front of the crowd waved Palestinian flags and chanted pro-Palestinian slogans.
The speeches on stage were the culmination of a mass protest that saw tens of thousands of people march through the streets of Amsterdam, urging for more action to tackle climate change.
Political leaders including former European Union climate chief Frans Timmermans, who now leads a centre-left, two-party bloc in the election campaign, later addressed the crowd in a square behind the landmark Rijksmuseum.
Event organiser, the Climate Crisis Coalition, said in a statement: "We live in a time of crises, all of which are the result of the political choices that have been made.
The original article contains 507 words, the summary contains 172 words. Saved 66%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
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