363
My mind's eye when I see those trump signs (lemmy.one)
submitted 11 months ago by Cranakis@lemmy.one to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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[-] Pons_Aelius@kbin.social 92 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

The USSR collapsed more than 30 years ago. Modern day Russia has nothing to do with communism at all.

It is closer to its Czarist imperial roots than it is to the the USSR. You would be more accurate using the Russian Imperial Eagle

They literally revived the old imperial symbol when the Russian federation was created.

[-] Cranakis@lemmy.one 24 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Yeah yeah. You're right of course. I am an American child of the 80's though which is why my mind uses the hammer and sickle still.

Also, Fuck Russia.

Edit: And, you try photoshoping that fucking eagle into a stencil format. Fuck that.

[-] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 16 points 11 months ago

I don't suppose... I could maybe get that without the trump sign? Possibly in .dxf format?

(no, I'm not going to make a stencil and gratuitously vandalize every trump sign I see... why would you even ask?!)

[-] Pons_Aelius@kbin.social 5 points 11 months ago

I am an American child of the 80’s though which is why my mind uses the hammer and sickle still.

Wolverines!!

Not American but I totally understand. :)

[-] Cranakis@lemmy.one 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Wolverines!!

You nailed it. I must have been 9 or so when that came out.

[-] Pons_Aelius@kbin.social 4 points 11 months ago

While the invasion in the original Red Dawn was stretching things a bit, at least the USSR was a credible threat back then.

The remake swapping out the USSR for the DPRK? Please...

[-] Cranakis@lemmy.one 6 points 11 months ago

On that topic, it has been really strange watching the same group that used to have nothing but vitriol for the Soviets, suddenly in jump in bed with the Russians. A generation has passed is one factor, I suppose. Still, its an about face that still makes my head spin a bit. I have to attribute it to Russian influence campaigns and other underhanded corruption using power, money and influence.

[-] Pons_Aelius@kbin.social 6 points 11 months ago

Two reasons.

First and foremost: Money

Second: Group of right-wing authoritarians hate Nation run by left wing authoritarians. Nation drops left ideology and swings hard right? Group of right-wing authoritarians change opinion of nation real fast.

[-] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 4 points 11 months ago

Have you seen “The Americans?”

It’s like that, but less fun.

A sizable amount of politicians are either spies, bribed, or have dirt on them (probably fucking kids).

[-] Zorque@kbin.social 17 points 11 months ago

You say that like the USSR had anything to do with communism.

[-] wandermind@sopuli.xyz 10 points 11 months ago

At least it pretended to.

Modern-day Russia doesn't even try to pretend.

[-] Cethin@lemmy.zip 9 points 11 months ago

It did for a while, until it didn't.

[-] Zorque@kbin.social 1 points 11 months ago

It didn't really, at all. It had revolutionaries with little in the way of ability to govern, and then a bunch of opportunistic autocrats who came in to pick up the pieces. Saying they had anything to do with communism was idealism at first, and outright fabrication after.

[-] 1boiledpotato@sh.itjust.works 3 points 11 months ago

I hate when people think communism means USSR. It had nothing to do with ut except the name

[-] Tedesche@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

It did, and it was a great example of where communism leads, as demonstrated by every other nation state that has gone communist. Devolution into an authoritarian dictatorship isn't a bug in communism, it's a feature. It's right in that little single-party "transitional" government bit. WTF do you think is gonna happen with that kind of ass-hattery?

We can incorporate socialist elements and reign in the excesses of capitalism without giving up our democracies and accepting authoritarian rule, thank you very much. Communists are either assholes or idiots, just like fascists.

[-] EldritchFeminity 2 points 11 months ago

The common denominator here is human greed and lack of regulations protecting everybody else. Authoritarianism is a feature of that, regardless of what system you're talking about. Economic policy has little bearing on whether or not a one party system turns into a dictatorship. A capitalist country in the same position would end up the same way, although more likely it would become a corporatocracy. There have been a handful of successful communist societies (largely on the small scale, like those boats that were stranded in a canal who formed their own communal society for a number of years because the companies that owned the boats didn't care enough to bother rescuing them), but the issues of both communism and capitalism always come back to simple everyday human greed and too much power in too few hands.

The modern Russian oligarchs made their fortune when Russia, the Ukraine, and one other country I can't remember joined together to dissolve the USSR in order to destabilize the economy so they could enact a stock market and buy up all the previously government owned industries before anyone else could. They even flew American stock market experts over beforehand to teach them how to do it. Given the opportunity, they would've done the exact same thing in a capitalist country. I'm not here to defend the USSR, because it absolutely had plenty of problems (authoritarianism among them), but those pictures from the 90s of people starving in the streets are from that period where Russia transitioned from a planned economy to a more capitalist economy.

[-] Tedesche@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

While I agree that human corruption is the most direct contributing factor to authoritarianism, I do think communism leaves itself much more open to such corruption compared to a democratic system of government. Communism isn’t merely an economic system; it is also a system of government, and the two cannot be separated and still be communism.

As I said, I’m all for socialist elements being incorporated into our governmental policies, provided they do not infringe upon democracy, but communism’s “transitional” one-party government is a horrid idea and a definite “no-go” when it comes to government. As it is an essential element to communism or the attempt to create a communist society (however you choose to think of it), I reject it outright as an inherently authoritarian system that should be fought against tooth and nail.

[-] EldritchFeminity 1 points 11 months ago

I honestly agree, a major issue with a planned economy style is that it is heavily regulated by the government and easily lends itself to some form of dictatorship thanks to the high levels of control in who or what is allowed to do things. Although I don't think a one party "transitional" government is essential to communism itself, I think it also wouldn't work in a multi-party system due to bickering amongst the parties, once again leading to the authoritarian issue.

I'm all for whatever system works, so long as it helps people first and foremost. IKEA was originally conceived by a man inspired by the socialist revolution in Sweden, who had the idea that furniture should be affordable for everyone, not just the rich, and is blacklisted to this day by most lumber vendors in Sweden as a result, forcing them to outsource their lumber from other countries. That's my kind of thinking. A massive company founded on the idea of helping the common man, not the rich.

[-] Tedesche@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

Although I don't think a one party "transitional" government is essential to communism itself

I’m not sure what version of communism you’re working with here. A transitional government is essential to any stated form of communism that attempts to achieve what communism purports to: a government-less society that can somehow manage an egalitarian economy. This is a fairytale. Economies always have to reckon with greed as a factor, and our best-constructed systems for doing so are government regulation by a government that is democratically elected. Do we have a corruption-proof system of government that can do that yet? Fuck, no. But democratic governments are much more equipped to do so than governments that rely on systemic oppression of alternative ideas, which communism is. Capitalism needs caps, that’s undeniable, but communism does not provide said caps, it merely provides a system that is duly equipped to do via government authority what capitalism does via the free market. Neither are aceptable forms of economic management.

[-] Zorque@kbin.social 1 points 11 months ago

It never got anywhere near communism. You just had a bunch of ideologues who imposed their idea of a "perfect society" on others without any real idea of how to actually accomplish that. Then a bunch of opportunistic prats came in, convinced others "Oh hey, we'll give you communism, you betcha" while imposing their own fascist ideals on it.

Authoritarianism is literally the opposite of communism. Just because some assholes called themselves communism and told you "this is communism" doesn't mean it was in any way true.

[-] Tedesche@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

No, it got as far as was intended: the “transitional” phase. Communism is all about Phase 2: the “transitional” single-party government everyone must accept while said authoritarian regime works on bringing about the perfect, government-less society promised by Communism, capital-C. Except there is no such society, because it’s a myth meant to keep the masses down, just like the religious opiate Lenin railed against. No, Phase 2 is the end game of communism, which is why no major society that’s adopted communist ideals has ever gotten past it.

Authoritarianism is the very heart of communism, you’re just still drunk on the Kool Aid.

[-] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 1 points 11 months ago

They used communist symbolism. That seems relevant when we're talking about symbols.

[-] Zorque@kbin.social 1 points 11 months ago

Soviet symbolism.

[-] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 1 points 11 months ago

No. It was invented in Russia but it's an international symbol.

[-] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 15 points 11 months ago

I mean tbf they also make use of soviet iconography to just as much of a degree, they have a weird obsession with synchrotizing soviet aesthetics with Imperial Russian aesthetics in what can only be described as "grievance culture chique"

[-] Urist@lemmy.ml 8 points 11 months ago

Fascists always talk about returning to some former greatness. If the greater past was communist, thousands of years ago or a fairy tale does not matter as much.

[-] Forester@yiffit.net 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

From what my Russian friends told me: Putin is a neo czarist. He has been preaching the "evils of western influences" for 30 years and trying to revive the Russian Empire. "As Marxism is a German ideology and was imported by the Germans to cause the Russian Empire to implode into civil war and close the western front in WWI to destabilize the Russian Empire it is inherently flawed and evil" : the "mighty Russian" people endured "western Marxism" and are still proud of their cultural symbolism from that time period as they made the art not the "evil westerners who tricked them into attempting communism".

If you would like more sourced information about this topic, I would advise you to read the foundations of geopolitics.

Edit added more quote marks

[-] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

Breaking out Alexander Dugin; nice.

[-] takeda@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

Oh, they started using the hammer and sickle more since the war started.

[-] GuyDudeman@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

That’s a disgrace.

[-] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 3 points 11 months ago

Putin was trained by the KGB.

[-] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

If he was a communist and had control of Russia than Russia wouldn't be the way it was.

It may surprise you that some capitalism supporters got into power in the soviet union before Yeltsin ordered the parliament to be bombarded with tanks, dissolving the socialist democracy and bringing about capitalism in former soviet states.

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[-] EldritchFeminity 17 points 11 months ago

Love all the people who completely missed the point that this isn't supposed to be accurate, it's supposed to trigger the conservatives since they're still stuck in the Red Scare propaganda and call anything they don't like "communism".

[-] Cranakis@lemmy.one 6 points 11 months ago

Exactly. Also the current Russian logo (two headed chicken beast), looks like shit and doesn't mean anything to the average American.

[-] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 1 points 11 months ago

This is honestly a conservative mindset. Who cares about "triggering" the conservatives? Thats not going to advance your political program.

Conflating Russia with the USSR just makes you look silly to anyone who knows anything about the history of the region.

[-] EldritchFeminity 1 points 11 months ago

The point of a debate (which this isn't, it's just a meme, you don't have to think too hard about it) isn't to convince your opponent that you're right, it's to convince everybody else that your side makes more sense. One way of doing that is showing how the other side is wrong.

And when the other side is as absurd and hypocritical as the Trump loyalists are, it's pretty easy. The meme is literally referencing how the conservatives conflate Russia as being the USSR (and anything they don't like as being a part of the latter as well).

[-] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 1 points 11 months ago

it’s to convince everybody else that your side makes more sense.

Okay but if I look at this meme I see nonsense. How does coming off as uneducated make your side look good to bystanders?

[-] danikpapas@lemm.ee 12 points 11 months ago

Nice, you added bunch of shit that don't have anything to do with each other. Nice post bro

[-] Cranakis@lemmy.one 3 points 11 months ago

You're welcome

[-] pottedmeat7910@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago

Seeing a Trump lawn sign is akin to seeing someone's septic system malfunction. It's just a bunch of smelly shit that's splattered all over the front yard.

[-] Donger@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago

This just makes you look stupid.

[-] Cranakis@lemmy.one 5 points 11 months ago

Why's that?

[-] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Do people just not think about what community this is? Meme’s are supposed to be absurd. I like two -headed chicken beast, great description.

[-] pudcollar@lemmy.ml 8 points 11 months ago

This is offensive. Trump is the opposite of what that symbol represents.

[-] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 2 points 11 months ago

I think it's been too corrupted by misuse, kind of like the swastika.

[-] pineapplelover@lemm.ee 6 points 11 months ago

Somebody should sell little stickers to slsp these on trump signs

[-] ohlaph@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

Basically. Dictator pull-ups

[-] ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 3 points 11 months ago

It is amazing how few people know that the USSR was run by Ukrainians from 1953-1982.

[-] purplepuppy@links.hackliberty.org 1 points 10 months ago

Red scare never really went away. Russia is a capitalistic country.

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this post was submitted on 11 Dec 2023
363 points (100.0% liked)

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