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submitted 1 year ago by throws_lemy@lemmy.nz to c/world@lemmy.world
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[-] IHeartBadCode@kbin.social 118 points 1 year ago

Economic inequality being one of the biggest drivers of democratic back sliding. Shitty part is that authoritarian doesn’t really offer anything better.

The wealthiest people of this world have created a world that’s tearing itself apart. And their only hedge is the thought that we will all be too busy killing each other that we forget completely about them. Hence these megalomaniacs that appear as distraction to keep us fighting each other.

[-] nicetriangle@kbin.social 49 points 1 year ago

Guillotine has entered the chat

[-] Caligvla@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 1 year ago

Guillotine, the one thing the rich fear.

[-] nicetriangle@kbin.social 17 points 1 year ago

You'd almost think they don't with the way they've been carrying on lately

[-] remus989@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 year ago

It's been awhile since they last saw it.

[-] Caligvla@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 1 year ago

Maybe we should bring it back, just saying.

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[-] MenKlash@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago

Economic inequality being one of the biggest drivers of democratic back sliding.
Shitty part is that authoritarian doesn’t really offer anything better.

Hey! Let's solve "economic inequality" with more statism! That's not authoritarian at all!

Obviously, wanting to reduce the monopolical privileges of politicians, public spending and taxes (robbery), erradicating the central bank, increasing work flexibility and advocating for individual rights and liberty is fascist af. Believe me, guys!

[-] Sanctus@lemmy.world 35 points 1 year ago

Saying taxes are theft has to be the most brain dead take. Even if your government is corrupt, its not the fault of taxation.

[-] Ddhuud@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

With the levels of corruption in Argentina taxes are pretty much just a way to give money to politicians.

[-] Sanctus@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

It doesn't matter. That is an issue with the politicians not taxation. If you were to abolish taxes you'd also have to figure out a way to run your society without money because you won't be paying for shit without them.

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[-] IHeartBadCode@kbin.social 27 points 1 year ago

Let's solve "economic inequality" with more statism!

I can vote the State, I can't vote the CEO.

Obviously, wanting to reduce the monopolical privileges of politicians

That's the citizens job, not his. Milei just wants to reduce the privileges of those disagreeing, at no point would Milei want to reduce the privileges that allows him to unilaterally reduce the political privileges of those opposed to him. Let him actually put forward something that actually indicates that HE wants less power and we'll talk about this aspect.

public spending and taxes

Again it's the citizens that dictate that. I can vote for people wanting to build something in the State, not a CEO that wants to build a highway for the goodwill of mankind.

erradicating the central bank

Nobody wants to be the "bad guy". Many nations are suffering the fate of too long supportive monetary policy without fiscal policy to follow. Same can be said about the USA. They rode too high and too far on quantitative easing at some point the party ends and nobody likes being "that guy". Again, that's mostly on the backs of the capricious voters who don't like mild inconveniences so they hold out for major ramifications. And why? There's way less disposable income in the hands of the many. So literally any inconvenience is a massive blow to their way of life. And it shouldn't be a hard guess for you to figure out why so many in the public have so little.

increasing work flexibility and advocating for individual rights and liberty

Every "work flexibility" I've ever seen pitched is just code for turning people into wage slaves. Sort of how like the UK got a lot of "trade flexibility" with Brexit. Once I've seen a working example that didn't actually fuck everyday citizens over, we'll talk.

As for individual rights and selling organs. I'm actually cool with that. There's quite a list of incredibly wealthy people I'd like to exercise those rights on.

fascist af

It's just that every time I've seen someone purpose breaking the system to make it better, they just want to break the system so that they can profit. I literally expect nothing less from Milei. This is the age of grift, why should anyone believe any one who pitches "I swear, I'll build something better, just first give me the power to destroy every protection you have first." Sure buddy, sure you will.

[-] MenKlash@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I can vote the State, I can't vote the CEO.

You vote for certain politicians, other people vote for other politicians, and whoever wins, the tyranny of majority will emerge. The success of the CEO is dependent of supply and demand, if there are no monopolical privileges. (I discussed this in another reply).

That's the citizens job, not his.

Following your logic, the citizens voting him is a perfect clue of this, am I right? Otherwise, I agree with you about what Milei will do with his powers. I don't trust 100% any politician, even him, but he's the only one who explicitly showed that, like donating each month his salary (funded by taxes) and not funding certain political campaigns.

Again it's the citizens that dictate that. I can vote for people wanting to build something in the State, not a CEO that wants to build a highway for the goodwill of mankind.

Citizens has no direct influence in the process of decision politicians make. The CEO (at exception of lobbyists) wanting to build a highway is: using his own factors of production achieved by social-cooperation (capital, land, technology and workers) and his desire of providing it emerges by supply and demand, by competence in a free-market setting and the economic calculation of consumers in a system of prices.

Nobody wants to be the "bad guy"

Sorry, but I don't get what you're trying to tell me here. Read about the Austrian Business Cycle Theory.

Every "work flexibility" I've ever seen pitched is just code for turning people into wage slaves.

Leaving aside the exact policies of Milei about this (as I'd prefer no policy at all), any governmental intervention in labor markets will cause unemployment among less productive workers. The term "slave" is not valid because those workers voluntary agreed, in a contract, the amount of money they'd get to do certain job.

"Wages represent the discounted productivity of labor in satisfying consumer demand. Demand for consumer goods translates into demand for workers."

It's just that every time I've seen someone purpose breaking the system to make it better, they just want to break the system so that they can profit.

Fair enough. Distrust in politicians is perfectly logic and ethical, but accusing him of fascist? It does not make any sense.

[-] IHeartBadCode@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago

the tyranny of majority will emerge

Which is why in most democracies there are inalienable rights and due process.

The success of the CEO is dependent of supply and demand, if there are no monopolical privileges

Unless they are a monopoly. Which most societies have established rules to prevent. Outside of those rules, we've seen time and time again such form. Capitalism doesn't have an inbuilt mechanism that prevents a single person owning everything, that tends to be the problem we run into often.

Following your logic, the citizens voting him is a perfect clue of this, am I right?

He's allowed to follow the process to remove the process. That doesn't mean that's a good choice. But yeah, you can absolutely use that logic to follow to that end. That's the nice thing about democracy it's flexible enough to become a ship we built to wreck. And voters are empowered enough to sink themselves if they so wish. So I question what freedom is not present currently that you lament the lack of?

but he's the only one who explicitly showed that, like donating each month his salary (funded by taxes) and not funding certain political campaigns

Yeah, that's not the altruism that it looks like. He's ultimately picking who is getting that money of his. He's picking which campaigns to not find funding. That's the point, not the money part the power part. The money part is one thing, the power part is something that one would be ill advised to lose sight of.

Citizens has no direct influence in the process of decision politicians make

They're not made to. Citizens have oversight and challenge on the wisdom of representatives. It would be unwise to have 500,000 peoples' hands on the steering wheel. There's no one direction we would be going in then.

The term "slave" is not valid because those workers voluntary agreed, in a contract, the amount of money they'd get to do certain job

When the choice is "go hungry" or "work" that's hardly voluntary. You will find it hard to convince me otherwise.

but accusing him of fascist? It does not make any sense.

If you read though my comments, at no point did I indicate him as fascist. Authoritarian, yes. He's looking to consolidate power to himself to enact change unilaterally, that's authoritarian. Not every authoritarian is fascist but it is important to understand the fertile ground such leaves for the future. Lenin didn't invent Stalin but he sure opened the door. And that's something to consider.

[-] AliasAKA@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago

If taxes are robbery then using public infrastructure like roads without paying taxes is also theft.

Taxes exist because public goods are actually good, and benefit everyone. The sum of the parts is greater than the individual parts. Your taxes pay for roads and public transit which are used to get people to work to create wealth for a community. It turns out the thing that makes humans great is community and banding together. Taxes are a formal way of doing that.

Now, we need equitable taxes, but that would involve taxing the rich proportionally. This is economically sound because wealth doesn’t trickle down and the mega wealthy are, well, mega wealthy because they hoard wealth. That money would be better spent creating better roads, better public transit, better education, or in short, a better community. The prospect of a better community only upsets those who are not members of the community, because their insane wealth puts them in a different class, and those who think defending that class will somehow get them privilege. The only privilege we need is a better community.

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[-] Bluescluestoothpaste@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The problem is when crooks privatize these things they steal billions of dollars worth of taxpayer money. Yes Argentina is messed up, but it's because of corruption. Privatization or socialization, both will fail because of corruption.

Like, private school or public school, they both fail if the principal is stealing money, this isn't a leftist/rightist issue.

[-] violetraven 9 points 1 year ago
[-] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

There are no borders, individual rights or liberties without taxes. You become a subject to whatever country's citizens pay enough taxes to take you over and use your resources and labor for their benefit.

[-] Coki91@dormi.zone 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I cant believe an actually informed comment exists on this thread, everytime Milei pops on here its an Article calling him fascist and everyone on the comments agreeing to it

[-] Shyfer@ttrpg.network 6 points 1 year ago

Get more of your friends on Lemmy and Kbin then lol

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[-] agitatedpotato@lemmy.dbzer0.com 72 points 1 year ago

It's no surprise the ratcheting rightward of global politics is coinciding with increased war and violent conflict, they fuel each other. Peace is bad for the fascist so I'd be very wary if I was Argentine.

[-] havokdj@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago

"Legalize sale of human organs"

Oh boy, I definitely don't see where that could go wrong.

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[-] autotldr@lemmings.world 18 points 1 year ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


A foul-mouthed, far-right populist who has been described as a cross between Boris Johnson and the killer doll Chucky is in pole position to become president of South America’s second-largest economy as Argentina chooses its next leader on Sunday against a backdrop of anti-establishment fury and economic disarray.

Election-eve polls suggest Javier Milei, a charismatic and wild-haired political outsider who found fame pontificating on television chat shows about monetary policy and sex, could sneak a first-round win, although a November runoff is likely.

At his final campaign event in Buenos Aires on Wednesday, the 53-year-old “anarcho-capitalist” addressed a packed 15,000-capacity stadium from a stage adorned with a banner proclaiming him “The Only Solution” to Argentina’s economic malaise.

In suburban Buenos Aires, Milei’s Peronist rival, the finance minister Sergio Massa, asked factory workers for support despite the slump his government has overseen, with 40% of Argentina’s 47 million citizens living in poverty amid triple-digit inflation.

The third main contender, the conservative former security minister Patricia Bullrich, denounced Milei’s “bad and dangerous” ideas, which include abolishing the central bank, loosening gun laws and even legalizing the sale of human organs.

The prospect of an Argentinian amalgam of Bolsonaro and Trump taking power has horrified progressive voters and also, apparently, Pope Francis, whom Milei has bad-mouthed as a “lefty son of a bitch”.


The original article contains 961 words, the summary contains 220 words. Saved 77%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

[-] nucawysi@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

argentina has been a corrupt country for a long long time

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[-] amenotef@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Argentina has above 100% annual inflation at the moment, right?

[-] aliteral@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago

Yes. And going far right will not change that.

[-] amenotef@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
[-] Coki91@dormi.zone 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Lemmy, much like Reddit is extreme far left mostly, they'll jump at throats for as little/as much as you did here...

[-] aliteral@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

Do ypu realize being leftist is pretty coherent when using free and aopen source software, right?

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[-] seliaste 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Oh yeah reddit is definetly extreme far left for sure Idk what your overton window is but I dont wanna have it if you think reddit is far left

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[-] TinyPizza@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago

This guy looks like Argentinian Ebenezer Scrooge. Libertarian humbug!

[-] Moonrise2473@feddit.it 8 points 1 year ago

Argentinians forgot that under the fascist dictatorships the inflation was even worse?

[-] ThunderWhiskers@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

I know it's a stupid superficial thing, but wtf is going on with this guy's hair?

[-] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 7 points 1 year ago

He's trying ri evoke the image of argentinean "founding fathers" there's a lot of memes of him with old school military uniforms. Argentina was some time ago one of the most economically important countries on the world and with that memes and that image they are trying to connect him with that history.

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[-] TheJims@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

He auditioning to be an Austin Powers movie villain.

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[-] vis4valentine@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago

I know an old man who is a trump supporter, conspiracy theorists, flat earther, reptilian Illuminati believer.

Even he agrees that Miley is a nutjob unfit for being president.

[-] Pulptastic@midwest.social 5 points 1 year ago
[-] RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

It's Zardoz.

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this post was submitted on 22 Oct 2023
445 points (100.0% liked)

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