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submitted 1 year ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

Israel was taken by surprise by the most ambitious operation Hamas has ever launched from Gaza.

The scale of what's been happening is unprecedented. Hamas breached the wire that separates Gaza from Israel in multiple places in the most serious cross-border attack Israel has faced in more than a generation.

It came a day after the 50th anniversary of the surprise attack by Egypt and Syria in 1973 that started a major Middle East war. The significance of the date will not have been lost on the Hamas leadership.

Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says his country is at war and will exact a heavy price from its enemies.

Videos and photos of dead Israelis, civilians as well as soldiers, are all over social media.

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[-] bestnerd@lemmy.world 99 points 1 year ago

I mean, Israel kind of threw the first stone and built the first wall

[-] athos77@kbin.social 63 points 1 year ago

Their settlers have been entering the Al Aqsa Mosque en masse for the past couple weeks, trying to pray, which even the Israeli government says they're not supposed to do.

[-] jscummy@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago

They tried to pray at a mosque? Better shoot up a music festival

[-] MTK@lemmy.world 55 points 1 year ago

They came for the civilians, they shot families in their homes, literal children and babies. No stone provoked this.

[-] rockyTron@lemm.ee 75 points 1 year ago

The Israeli settlers did this first in the forties when they invaded and colonized Palestine, indiscriminate violence was their M.O., so yes the first stone was thrown two generations ago. Not excusing the violence today, but it is not unexpected nor unprecedented by either side of this conflict.

[-] samokosik@lemmy.world 29 points 1 year ago

how many times has palestine been offered land for peace? Many - In 1948, 1967 and even later there were offers which mentioned connecting palestine and gaza. all the times, palestinians refused it.

Hence why I am under the impression that they are more responsible for this conflict.

[-] argues_semantics@lemm.ee 28 points 1 year ago

This is like somebody moving into your home and then you accept a couple of the bedrooms and one of the bathrooms, believing it to be an appropriate compromise.

[-] samokosik@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

Not really. It’s definitely a bit tough to judge who did the dessert belong to. But historically, there was a point in time when jews were living in that area.

[-] argues_semantics@lemm.ee 14 points 1 year ago

Historically, there was a point in time, is such a slippery slope. We could play that geography game all day.

[-] jimbolauski@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

That's his point claiming it belongs to one group or another over simplifies what's happened in that region.

[-] Dkarma@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

But that time you're talking about all this land was recognized as Palestine. Prior to 1948 no government or country in the planet recognized any Israeli claim to this land.

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[-] Loudergood@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 1 year ago

The pie is big enough, but someone takes another slice every year.

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[-] bestnerd@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

I had no idea. Why wouldn’t they take the offers

[-] Breezy@lemmy.world 42 points 1 year ago

Thats like asking why Ukrainian wont just accecpt Russians offer for peace. They have their homeland stolen, and then should be happy with a little bit of it after the fact?

[-] TheOctonaut@mander.xyz 4 points 1 year ago

This is Lemmy, there are quite a lot of American teens who don't know why Ukraine shouldn't do exactly as you say.

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[-] danhakimi@kbin.social 12 points 1 year ago

Jewish subjects under the British mandate rebelled against the British government and the Nazi-aligned muftis. This, after decades of oppression against the Jews of the colony; finally, they declared their independence.

A lot of people are excusing, and in many cases celebrating the violence today. They love to see Jews die. This is nothing new.

[-] bestnerd@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago

No one is saying Jews need to or should die. The argument is larger than that. Israel has don’t some fucking horrible things to Palestinians. Palestine rejected land deals and peace. It’s horrible to see what’s happening. No one should be praising Hamas,

[-] jimbolauski@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

That area has been under conflict for 1,000s of years claiming that it's the Palestinians land is very short sided.

[-] Dkarma@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

The Bible say so 🤷‍♂️

[-] Wahots@pawb.social 6 points 1 year ago

It belonged to the British before WW2. After the war, where Israel was created after 6,000,000 Jewish people (among other "undesirable" groups, such as gay people) were summarily executed by the nazis, it fell under immediately attack from all of its neighbors in 1947. Two years after six million were executed.

The Arab League members Egypt, Transjordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq refused to accept the UN partition plan and proclaimed the right of self-determination for the Arabs across the whole of Palestine. The Arab states marched their forces into what had, until the previous day, been the British Mandate for Palestine, starting the first Arab–Israeli War. After an initial loss of territory by the Jewish state, the tide turned in the Israelis' favour and they pushed the Arab armies back beyond the borders of the proposed Arab state

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Israel

While it doesn't excuse brutal repression, I don't think they are ever going to back down. Any time they do, everyone seems to execute all of them in pogroms.

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[-] WheeGeetheCat@sh.itjust.works 46 points 1 year ago

Everyone choosing a side between Palestine and Israel, but I'm going to take the mega unpopular stance of fuck both these people. Fuck the fundamentalist followers of Abraham, no matter what branch.

They would visit great violence on you in the name of their god if they had the chance. They are murderously self-righteous.

[-] AdmiralShat@programming.dev 18 points 1 year ago

Yeah I'm with you here.

Seems so strange that two sects of the same religion would commit horrid acts of violence against each other, against children, all because at some point some dude may have said some different shit than some other dude at a place like 60 miles away.

I also don't get the side picking. This attack was violent and horrible, but does that wipe away the decades of horrible shit Isreal has done? Seems like two toxic groups are doing toxic shit at each other.

I only feel sorry for the innocent people caught in the cross fire.

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[-] MataVatnik@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

Enlightened centrist

[-] Dkarma@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

Which side should you support? Maybe the only side actually facing genocide.
Israel is kettling Palestine. Palestine has no option but to fight back against israels apartheid.

Both sides say they want to eradicate the other but only Israel is actually doing genocide.

[-] WheeGeetheCat@sh.itjust.works 23 points 1 year ago

I get it. if I was born in Palestine I'd fight too. But if I went to Palestine in the body I currently inhabit, I'd be raped and stoned in the streets for the way I dress.

I've seen videos of children of both cultures calmly telling tourists they should die, that god will kill them, that the children themselves would kill them if they could. The Israeli children are dressed nicer, but the raw hatred is the same. Both cultures suckle their children on self-righteousness. On stories of being 'gods chosen'. If their cultures grow and succeed they wont care that you helped, they'll use their power to subjugate you to their god all the same. Because they're 'special'

[-] Dkarma@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

You keep talking about rhetoric. Now do reality. Who is being exterminated?

Hint it's not the Jews this time.

[-] WheeGeetheCat@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 year ago

Theyre both exterminating each other, and the one with the most power is doing better at it. If Palestine suddenly had more power, they would be doing better at it. HAMAS has as much chance of establishing a peaceful secular democracy as ISIS

[-] Dkarma@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

No they're not that's the point. Palestine cannot destroy Israel. You act like both sides have the ability to wipe each other out.

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[-] prole@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

They're absolutely not "both exterminating each other". Please do yourself a favor and find some (accurate) death count numbers for every single clash between Israel and Palestine, AT THE VERY LEAST since they began building settlements on Palestinian land.

Every single time, it is the opposite of proportional response. They kill 100x-1000x more. They are slaughtering several orders of magnitude more (and we'll just see it again in the coming days/weeks). The majority of Israelis that have died in these conflicts are IDF. They are soldiers.

On the other hand, Israel TARGETS civilians (including people clearly marked as civilian medics and the press) and fucking children in their "response".

Palestinians could never actually put up an even, proportional battle (for example, Ukraine and Russia seems at least relatively proportionate). What's happening in Israel isn't a battle or a war, it's genocide.

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[-] UltraMagnus0001@lemmy.world 37 points 1 year ago

GB and the allies said, hey we'll put you here in Israel since 2000 years ago the Pharaohs made you slaves. Don't mind the people living here, they'll just move. They did the same thing with India and Pakistan. I wonder how the animosity between these groups started?

[-] SCB@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago

Terrorism is not the means to combat this. Murdering and kidnapping civilians is never excusable.

[-] Madison420@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

You're aware that terrorism is how Israel became Israel. Look into proto Israeli bombings of civilian targets.

On 22 July 1946, Irgun bombed the British administrative headquarters for Palestine, which was housed in the southern wing[142] of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem.[143][144][145] A total of 91 people of various nationalities were killed and 46 were injured.[146] The hotel was the site of the Secretariat of the Government of Palestine and the Headquarters of the British Armed Forces in Mandatory Palestine and Transjordan.

[-] dasgoat@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

Reason why Netanyahu is such a cunt is because he's still miffed that he had to miss out on the good old days when his inspirations still bombed left and right

[-] Clown_Tempura@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

So what is the solution? Rolling over and dying as Israel genocides them in slow-motion while the rest of the world looks on and shrugs? Hamas is a putrid, evil organization, but the Palestinians have no other options. No one gives a shit what's happening to them.

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[-] Appleseuss@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Terrorism to one group is freedom fighting to another.

[-] SCB@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Freedom fighters don't gun down civilians at music festivals

This is not "freedom fighting"

[-] Custodian1623@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

disgusting that people defend this because "Israel bad." get a grip, Hamas would do the same to you if you were in their path.

[-] SCB@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I even largely agree with the claim "Israel bad." This is not how you get Israel to stop doing the bad things.

This is just totally fucked.

[-] Madison420@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Yeah it has been for decades and decades but suddenly because Israel actually gets hurt for once in like what 60 fucking years it's a step too far.

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[-] punseye@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

While Britain did make the matters worse but we must not forget that Hindus and Muslims have been at war with each other for a millennium now.

Same for Jews and Muslims.

People also want to indulge in political correctness and give free pass to Islamic scriptures which promotes hatred against Jews and Polytheists (Hindus).

That's why you'll find Muslims in Israel and India living largely peacefully but Hindus in Pakistan and Jews in Palestine continue to face atrocities.

In fact Hindus don't even have freedom of religion in India as many of our sacred Hindu sites were destroyed by Islamic invaders and mosques were built upon them.

Today's conflict between India and Pakistan is basically Hindus in conflict with ex-Hindus who converted to Islam to escape from Jizya (Islamic tax) and other forms of atrocities.

Another thing that makes India unique is that it has somehow retained some bits of it's culture even after the repeated Islamic invasions, that's not the case with other 50 odd Islamic countries. Spain might be the only other exception.

So, these are centuries old conflicts which Britishers exploited well.

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[-] Number1SummerJam@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago

Is there going to be another war or should this just be considered a small scale attack?

[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social 24 points 1 year ago

I mean Israel already declared a state of war. Yeah this is not a small scale attack, and is actually the first time Hamas actually attacked Israel with foot soldiers.

[-] money_loo@1337lemmy.com 21 points 1 year ago

Naw just more scratching and clawing from a desperate animal being slowly choked to death and driven into the sea.

More bombing and annexing to be expected.

[-] generalpotato@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago

Right, this was never a “war”, just atrocities and genocide.

[-] autotldr@lemmings.world 7 points 1 year ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


Other videos of armed men from Hamas hauling soldiers and civilians into captivity in Gaza have enraged and alarmed Israelis.

Israelis and Palestinians have been focusing on the West Bank, the territory between Jerusalem and the Jordanian border that Israel has occupied since 1967, where there has been almost continuous confrontation and violence throughout the year.

Armed Palestinians, especially those operating out of the West Bank towns of Jenin and Nablus, have attacked Israeli soldiers and Jewish settlers.

Extreme religious nationalists inside Israel's right-wing government have repeated their claim that the occupied territories, in their entirety, are Jewish land.

During the last week, some Jews have prayed inside the Aqsa Mosque compound, the third holiest place for Muslims after Mecca and Medina in Saudi Arabia.

At the heart of the trouble is the intractable and unresolved century-long conflict between Arabs and Jews for control of the land between the Mediterranean Sea and the river Jordan.


The original article contains 732 words, the summary contains 155 words. Saved 79%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

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this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2023
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