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submitted 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) by ShotDonkey@lemmy.world to c/privacy@lemmy.ml

In an unexpected mask off "secure" email and VPN provider Proton took the stance of siding with the fascist MAGA Reps. Proton's services are no option for me and many others any longer. Let's collect and discuss alternatives (E2E encrypted email and VPN) here 🔐👇

Always try to provide:

-Server location (jurisdiction)

-Governance

-Integrity/trustworthiness/transparency

-User experience/ease of use (grade 1 to 10, lets take Proton as a benchmark with an 8)

-Pricing and links

If you know alternative setups, feel free to share, too.

#ProtonExodus

Background: https://lemmy.ca/comment/13913116

Edit:typo

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[-] red@lemmy.zip 26 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

using services based on the ceo's political leaning instead of actual features and policies of that service? that's dumb, tell me when that political leaning reflects in polices of proton then we can talk

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[-] swordgeek@lemmy.ca 88 points 18 hours ago

Wow!

Of all companies, this is one I didn't expect.

Damn.

[-] sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 46 points 17 hours ago

Why would this be unexpected?

Proton already handed over the IP of a climate protester to authorities several years ago, while boasting that they had a no log policy.

https://therecord.media/protonmail-forced-to-collect-an-activists-ip-address-in-police-investigation

Every time, in the past few years, that I bring this up, everyone just acts like I'm setting an impossible standard and no alternative exists.

Proton has been shady for years.

[-] Zadhu@slrpnk.net 20 points 16 hours ago

From reading that article it looks like they were only using and able to log the IP address when the person logged in to their protonmail account specifically - not VPN.

They even state that VPNs can not be forced to log under the same legal order and are treated differently so in this case it seems the activists were not using the VPN while accessing their emails.

Although I dont agree with even the logging of the email IP, it appears like the user shot themselves in the foot like that other case where someone used their real name in the username and that obviosly has to be logged in some way.

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[-] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 58 points 18 hours ago

the good news is this is a lesson to never trust any entity whose role in the world is to accumulate capital

[-] xapr@lemmy.sdf.org 26 points 17 hours ago

What's insane is that didn't Proton just recently announce they were converting to a non-profit?

Yes, they did: https://proton.me/blog/proton-non-profit-foundation

Yea, and Andy Yen is only one of five members on the board of the Non-Profit organization, so you'll just have to gamble that everyone else isn't this weird (if you still want to continue using Proton services, that is, your choice 🤷‍♂️).

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[-] bleistift2@sopuli.xyz 85 points 18 hours ago

Phew! For a moment I thought you were talking about the steam compatibility thingy.

[-] AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world 26 points 18 hours ago

I thought they were talking about the elementary particle—I was afraid we’d have to find some other way of manifesting our physical existence.

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[-] 9488fcea02a9@sh.itjust.works 27 points 16 hours ago

Tweet is from early december. Why is it blowing up now?

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[-] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 30 points 17 hours ago

Mullvad is supposed to be a safe and secure VPN.

[-] Lemmchen@feddit.org 16 points 16 hours ago

Unfortunately not a mail or storage provider.

[-] hannesh93@feddit.org 32 points 16 hours ago

If this wasn't enough of a wakeupcall to not put all the eggs in one basket then what is? Companies are literally doing this to lock you into their service so it's harder to switch since you then have to find X new services instead of just one.

Better go with one that'd specialized for each service you need...

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[-] AnAmericanPotato@programming.dev 26 points 17 hours ago

Tuta.com is similar to Proton Mail + Calendar.

  • Location: Germany

  • Governance: Private GmbH (German corporation, similar to an American LLC)

  • Integrity/trustworthiness/transparency: Better than Proton IMHO. All their apps are open source and available on F-Droid. They encrypt email headers (unlike Proton, who are weaselly about this in their marketing materials).

  • User Experience: Ehhhh...6? I'm not in the best position to compare because I do not have a premium plan, so I am not able to examine features like inbox rules/filters. Much like Proton, it doesn't support full-text email search unless you have it cache your entire mailbox locally (either via the web site or app). They do not support POP or IMAP, but do offer their own desktop and mobile apps.

  • Pricing: €3/month for 20GB, €8/month for 500GB. https://tuta.com/pricing

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[-] lazzerot@startrek.website 14 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

Protonmail has been my main email provider for the past 7 years, and unless its CEO decides to sell it to Trump or Musk I honestly don't see how his stupid private or not so private opinions are worth the hassle of changing my email for the million things I use my main and all the other emails I registered with Protonmail.
Most rich people have very dubious or outright awful political opinions and unless you're rich enough to have someone build you an alternative or deconnected enough from society/only exist in programmer circles and are able to live entirely on FOSS software I don't see why the average user should care about the CEO's political stance. Maybe that's my ignorant opinion as a European, but would you stop using Linux if you found out Linus Torvalds secretly loves Windows? Probably not.

[-] raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world 8 points 15 hours ago

Your analogy/ example is fucked up and beyond stupid. Protonmail is hosted by the organization. Linus has no access to the Linux systems in the world. Also, thousands have contributed to the Linux ecosystem.

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[-] Perhapsjustsniffit@lemmy.ca 25 points 18 hours ago

Uggghhh I just upped for two years. Fucking asshats are all caving to the orange fuckhead. Probably off to Europe somewhere.

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[-] hddsx@lemmy.ca 23 points 18 hours ago

I don’t use proton, but I would be grateful if you could share a link on how Proton sided with fascists.

Also, I use Mullvad for VPN and I host my own email

They didn't exactly "side with fascists", but Andy Yen, one of the board members on the Non-Profit that owns Proton AG, has very bad takes on politics, and just has a right-wing "Libertarian" vibe.

https://x.com/andyyen/status/1864436449942110660 (https://archive.is/l1WYU)

https://x.com/andyyen/status/1812442643726537182 (https://archive.is/ADc8C)

[-] hddsx@lemmy.ca 21 points 18 hours ago

Huh, I wasn’t very concerned with your links… but I googled and found out Andy Yen is the founder. That’s alarming

[-] SnotFlickerman 19 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

True, but Tim Brenners-Lee is also on the board, and he historically has generally good takes on tech and politics.

People are often unwilling to go against the positions of the guy who created the World Wide Web.

[-] jaggedrobotpubes@lemmy.world 12 points 16 hours ago

If his presence at proton is the old thing holding back the stupid, then it isn't as good a company as we has been thinking.

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[-] zdhzm2pgp@lemmy.ml 21 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

AFAICT, it looks like all he's doing is praising Trump's pick for AG in the Antitrust division . . . although if you look over her Wikipedia page, you're right, it doesn't look all that encouraging.

Can someone on Mastodon ask the Proton CEO what it was exactly that she did that he likes so much? Anyone who can work at Fox for any length of time, frankly, is complete and utter shite.

EDIT: Also, just as a broken clock can be right twice a day, President 🍄 sank the Trans Pacific Partnership, which was the right thing to do, but for the wrong reason: mainly to get back at Obama for existing. So in the same way, I suppose it's possible that Slater did something good, but I'd sure like to know what it was.

[-] Horsey@lemmy.world 8 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

In all seriousness, I genuinely feel like the demographics of those making over 250K/year outside of Silicon Valley (proton is from Switzerland which is a center-right country), and outside of the arts industries, is probably bare minimum of lib-center, and probably most likely to be at least fiscally conservative, if not socially as well. Those kind of people are more concerned with maintaining their financial position than the issues plaguing the income classes that the individual has graduated out of.

I don’t think you’re going to find many CEOs that aren’t at least a little right of center or self serving in their business interests.

Getting to the top 1% income bracket is a lot easier than maintaining that financial position.

[-] schnapspraline@lemmy.world 17 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

My personal recommendations:

https://uberspace.de

  • Server location (jurisdiction): Germany
  • Integrity/trustworthiness/transparency: About-Page
  • User experience/ease of use (grade 1 to 10, lets take Proton as a benchmark with an 8): 6
  • Pricing: Based on solidarity, but recommend minimum is 5 € per month

https://www.hostsharing.net

  • Server location (jurisdiction): Germany
  • Integrity/trustworthiness/transparency: well, you own part of hostsharing if you use it (collective-ownership)
  • User experience/ease of use (grade 1 to 10, lets take Proton as a benchmark with an 8): 6
  • Pricing: 64 € onetime payment + 10 € per month (cooperative)

Other recommendations:

  • mailbox.org, systemli.org, riseup.net, posteo.de (as far as I know all of them are located in Germany)
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[-] TypicalHog@lemm.ee 8 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

LMAO! This is the type of person who would leave Steam if Gabe endorsed Trump.

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this post was submitted on 15 Jan 2025
562 points (100.0% liked)

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