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submitted 8 months ago by L4s@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world

Screens keep getting faster. Can you even tell? | CES saw the launch of several 360Hz and even 480Hz OLED monitors. Are manufacturers stuck in a questionable spec war, or are we one day going to wo...::CES saw the launch of several 360Hz and even 480Hz OLED monitors. Are manufacturers stuck in a questionable spec war, or are we one day going to wonder how we ever put up with ‘only’ 240Hz displays?

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[-] Suburbanl3g3nd@lemmings.world 73 points 8 months ago
[-] Tom_bishop@lemmy.world 9 points 8 months ago
[-] FlorianSimon@sh.itjust.works 57 points 8 months ago

Yes, they are. This is a meme, sir.

No, this is Patrick.

[-] Suburbanl3g3nd@lemmings.world 21 points 8 months ago

Where's r/woosh when you need it lol

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[-] aaaantoine@lemmy.world 33 points 8 months ago

On one hand, 360hz seems imperceptibly faster than 240hz for human eyes.

On the other hand, if you get enough frames in, you don't have to worry about simulating motion blur.

[-] DosDude@retrolemmy.com 79 points 8 months ago

I never worry about motion blur, because I turn it off. The stupidest effect ever. If I walk around I don't see motion blur. Cameras see motion blur because of shutter speed, not the human eye.

[-] Petter1@lemm.ee 38 points 8 months ago

Umm, well, there is something like motion blur experienced by humans, in fact, your brain creates the time bending effect based on picture 1 and picture 2

https://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2012/12/05/3647276.htm

There is a trick where you watch a clock that counts seconds and turn your head fastly away and back there (or something like that) and you will see, that the rate of seconds seem to be inconsistent

See "1. CHRONOSTASIS" https://bigthink.com/neuropsych/time-illusions/

[-] DosDude@retrolemmy.com 17 points 8 months ago

Alright. I didn't know, thanks. Though the human motion blur is vastly different to camera blur in my experience. And games that have motion blur look really unnatural.

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[-] Fermion@mander.xyz 9 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

On the other hand, humans don't see in defined frames. The signals aren't synchronized. So a big part of perceived blurring is that the succession of signals isn't forming a single focused image. There isn't really a picture 1 and 2 for your brain to process discreetly. And different regions in your vision are more sensitive to small changes than others.

A faster refresh rate is always "better" for the human eye, but you'll need higher and higher panel brightness to have a measurable reaction time difference.

But hitting really high refresh rates requires too many other compromises on image quality, so I won't personally be paying a large premium for anything more than a 120hz display for the time being.

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[-] ArmoredThirteen@lemmy.ml 11 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Motion blur in games gives me bad motion sickness and garbles what I'm seeing. I already have a hard enough time processing information fast enough in any kind of fast paced game I don't need things to be visually ambiguous on top of that

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[-] a1studmuffin@aussie.zone 31 points 8 months ago

I'd much rather they invest efforts into supporting customisable phones. Instead of just releasing a few flavours of the same hardware each year, give us a dozen features we can opt into or not. Pick a base size, then pick your specs. Want a headphone jack, SD card, FM radio, upgraded graphics performance? No problems, that'll cost a bit extra. Phones are boring now - at least find a way to meet the needs of all consumers.

[-] ggwithgg@feddit.nl 17 points 8 months ago

Not exactly what you are talking about, but slightly related: the company Fairphone makes phones with parts that can easily be replaced. The philosophy is that you will not have to buy a new phone every 3 years. They do have some customized options aswell (i.e. ram, storage, models) but its limited.

But going full on optimization with phones, laptops and tablets, similar as a desktop, is just incredibly hard due to the lack of space in the device for the components. As such it makes more sense to offer a wide variety of models, with some customizable options, and then have the user pick something.

[-] 1rre@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 8 months ago

On Fairphone, they flat out refuse to even discuss adding a headphone jack (check the posts in their forums - it's a "hands over ears" no) so I'm sticking with Sony/ASUS (the latter atm as they've been slightly less anticompetitive recently but I'd much rather go to a decent company) until they do... It's not like you notice a phone being 1mm thicker when you have a 3mm case on it anyway

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[-] zurohki@aussie.zone 9 points 8 months ago
[-] wikibot@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

Here's the summary for the wikipedia article you mentioned in your comment:

Project Ara was a modular smartphone project under development by Google. The project was originally headed by the Advanced Technology and Projects team within Motorola Mobility while it was a Google subsidiary. Google retained the ATAP group when selling Motorola Mobility to Lenovo, and it was placed under the stewardship of the Android development staff; Ara was later split off as an independent operation. Google stated that Project Ara was being designed to be utilized by "6 billion people": 1 billion current smartphone users, and 5 billion feature phone users.Under its original design, Project Ara was intended to consist of hardware modules providing common smartphone parts, such as processors, displays, batteries, and cameras, as well as modules providing more specialized components, and "frames" that these modules were to be attached to. This design would allow a device to be upgraded over time with new capabilities and upgraded without requiring the purchase of an entire new device, providing a longer lifecycle for the device and potentially reducing electronic waste. However, by 2016, the concept had been revised, resulting in a base phone with non-upgradable core components, and modules providing supplemental features. Google planned to launch a new developer version of Ara in the fourth quarter of 2016, with a target bill of materials cost of $50 for a basic phone, leading into a planned consumer launch in 2017. However, on September 2, 2016, Reuters reported that two non-disclosed sources leaked that Alphabet's manufacture of frames had been canceled, with possible future licensing to third parties. Later that day, Google confirmed that Project Ara had been shelved.

^to^ ^opt^ ^out^^,^ ^pm^ ^me^ ^'optout'.^ ^article^ ^|^ ^about^

[-] stevecrox@kbin.run 8 points 8 months ago

I wish a company would build 4.5"-5.5" and 5.5"-6.5" flagship phones, put as many features that make sense in each.

Then when you release a new flagship the last flagship devices become your 'mid range' and you drop the price accordingly, with your mid range dropping to budget the year after.

When Nokia had 15 different phones out at a time it made sense because they would be wildly different (size, shape, button layout, etc...).

These days everyone wants as large a screen as possible on a device that is comfortable to hold, we really don't need 15 different models with slightly different screen ratios.

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[-] vext01@lemmy.sdf.org 25 points 8 months ago

Reminiscent of the hi-res audio marketing. Why listen at a measly 24bit 48khz when you can have 32/192?!

[-] vividspecter@lemm.ee 22 points 8 months ago

These have an actual perceivable difference even if subtle. Hires audio, however, is inaudible by humans.

[-] vext01@lemmy.sdf.org 11 points 8 months ago

I tend to agree, but the audiophiles always have an answer to rebuttal it with.

I'm into audio and headphones, but since I've never been able to reliably discern a difference with hi-res audio, I no longer let it concern me.

[-] PastyWaterSnake@lemmy.world 10 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I've bought pretty expensive equipment, tube amplifier, many fancy headphones, optical DACs. A library full of FLAC files. I even purchased a $500 portable DAP. I've never been able to reliably tell a difference between FLAC and 320k MP3 files. At this point, it really doesn't concern me anymore either, but I at least like to see my fancy tube amp light up.

I will say, though, $300 seems to be the sweet-spot for headphones for me.

[-] vividspecter@lemm.ee 5 points 8 months ago

I’ve never been able to reliably tell a difference between FLAC and 320k MP3 files

I just keep FLAC around so I can transcode them to new lossy formats as they improve. And so I can transcode aggressively for my mobile when I'm streaming from home, and don't need full transparency.

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[-] bitwolf@lemmy.one 6 points 8 months ago

Imo the biggest bump is from mp3 to lossless. The drums sound more organic on flacs whereas on most mp3s they sound like a computer MIDI sound.

The biggest bump for me was the change in headphones. It made my really old aac 256kbps music sound bad.

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[-] otp@sh.itjust.works 8 points 8 months ago

They have tests you can take to see if you can hear the difference. A lot of people fail! Lol

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[-] pete_the_cat@lemmy.world 17 points 8 months ago

At this point it's a dick measuring contest.

[-] devfuuu@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago

Always has been.

Big numbers go brrrr.

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[-] Lemminary@lemmy.world 16 points 8 months ago

Finally, a screen with the refresh rate that my cat can enjoy! He sure is gonna love that Tom & Jerry like no other cat that ever lived.

[-] LWD@lemm.ee 10 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)
[-] Lemminary@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

Yeah, I'm aware. My main concern is that the screen flickers for them and not that the animation is smooth. lol

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[-] morrowind@lemmy.ml 16 points 8 months ago

Well no, because most people aren't getting them. It's nice but it's difficulty to justify spending hundreds on a lightly better screen

[-] azenyr@lemmy.world 14 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The bigger the screen, the more you notice because it covers more of your field of view. I would say 240Hz is the sweet spot. You can definitely feel the improvement from lower rates, but rates above it start to be barely noticeable. However I am fine with 144-165Hz if I wanted to save money and still get a great experience. Bellow 120Hz is unusable for me. Once you go high refresh, you cannot go back, ever. 60Hz feels like a slideshow. For gaming 60 is fine, but for work use and scrolling around I can't have 60. Yes people, high refresh rate is useful even outside of gaming.

Funny thing is, while gaming, even if my monitor and PC can do it, I rarely let my fps go above 120-140. I limit them in the game. PC gets much quieter, uses less power, heats up less and its smooth enough to enjoy a great gameplay. I will never understand people who get a 4090 and play with unlocked fps just to get 2000 fps on minecraft while their pc is screaming for air. Limit your fps at least to your Hz people, have some care for your hardware. I know you get less input lag but you are not Shroud, those less 0.000001ms of input lag will not make a difference.

[-] morbidcactus@lemmy.ca 7 points 8 months ago

I went from 1080p60 as my standard for literal decades to 3440x1440 @144hz over the last 2 years and I can't go back, mostly for non-gaming activities, find the ultrawide better than multi monitor for me, would love a vertical e-ink display though for text. I also limit my fps to 120, I don't like feeling like my PC is going to take off and the place I rent is older so the room I use for my office is smaller, heats up quickly.

[-] Euphoma@lemmy.ml 5 points 8 months ago

Minecraft actually gets better FPS when you don't limit its FPS. When I play at 60 fps, it usually dips into the 50's and 40's, while when its unlimited, there are no noticeable dips.

[-] Snoopey@lemmy.world 12 points 8 months ago

All I want is a 27/28 inch oled 4k monitor with good hdr. I don't care about the refresh rate as long a it's 60Hz+

[-] dai@lemmy.world 9 points 8 months ago

Minimum for me would be 120hz, i've been using 120hz since 2012 (12 years... man) and anything less feels like a massive step backwards. My old S10+ and my cheapie laptop feel sluggish in any animated / transmission scenario.

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[-] Donkter@lemmy.world 11 points 8 months ago

This says "can you tell?" Like I don't get a new screen once every 10 years maybe and even then the last one I got was used.

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[-] Jumi@lemmy.world 10 points 8 months ago

I splurged on a 4k 144hz monitor when I worked constant night shifts in covid times and I don't think I will ever need something else.

[-] Copernican@lemmy.world 10 points 8 months ago

So when are 144hz, 1440p, hdr oleds going to come down in price?

[-] BetaDoggo_@lemmy.world 10 points 8 months ago

It won't matter until we hit 600. 600 integer scales to every common media framerate so frametimings are always perfect. Really they should be focusing on better and cheaper variable refresh rate but that's harder to market.

[-] patatahooligan@lemmy.world 11 points 8 months ago

Well, not really, because television broadcast standards do not specify integer framerates. Eg North America uses ~59.94fps. It will take insanely high refresh rates to be able to play all common video formats including TV broadcasts. Variable refresh rate can fix this only for a single fullscreen app.

[-] Vlyn@lemmy.zip 6 points 8 months ago

I mean the 240 I use already does that. So would 360 or 480. No clue why you fixate on 600.

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[-] DigitalTraveler42@lemmy.world 10 points 8 months ago

Isn't the point that you're not supposed to be able to tell?

[-] hark@lemmy.world 9 points 8 months ago

360hz no scope

[-] KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml 8 points 8 months ago

How can screens be fast when our eyes are slow?

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[-] M500@lemmy.ml 6 points 8 months ago

I still use a 75hz desktop and 60hz on my Laptop. I can’t tell the difference.

Even looking at the iPhone 15 pro next to a 15 looks the same to me.

[-] azenyr@lemmy.world 7 points 8 months ago

To be fair, 60Hz to 75Hz is barely noticeable even by those who are used to notice these things. If you can't tell the difference, it's understandable.

Then, the bigger the screen, the more noticeable high refresh rate is, because it covers more of your field of vision. So in a small iPhone screen it's not easy for everyone to notice (and then there is the fact that iPhones rarely go to 120Hz anyway which is an absolute mess by itself but that's another topic, so your 15 Pro probably rarely goes above a noticeable Hz change anyway).

However, if you get a 144Hz or above, 24" and above monitor, you will IMMEDIATELY see the difference against your 60Hz monitor. Even moving the mouse feels more responsive and accurate. Makes targeting stuff with your mouse easier. Reading text while scrolling is possible also. It unlocks a new world, it's not only for gaming. Casual and work use also benefit a lot from high refresh rates.

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[-] just_another_person@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

It's complicated. Certain slow and continuously moving objects would be perceived as moving more slowly even fast 500hz, but due to the nature of displays displaying frames, certain other types of motion would show no improvement. For me, 144hz looks the same as 240hz for most games, but not the same for others.

[-] sleepmode@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

I get less motion sickness with higher refresh rates. But anything above 120hz makes no tangible difference. I’m more interested in OLED and color accuracy.

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this post was submitted on 14 Jan 2024
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