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Wales’s 20mph speed limit has cut road deaths. Why is there still even a debate? (www.theguardian.com)
submitted 1 week ago by ladel@feddit.uk to c/unitedkingdom@feddit.uk
26 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Even with the caveats about limited data and untangling causation and correlation, the statistics are striking: the first year of a scheme in Wales where the speed limit on urban roads was lowered to 20mph resulted in about 100 fewer people killed or seriously injured.

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[-] Flamekebab@piefed.social 12 points 1 week ago

I constantly encounter people who speed in my town in Wales. Then I meet them at the next light. It's infuriating because they're making the place more dangerous for everyone but for literally no benefit. The average road speed possible is below 20 mph so speeding just means a longer wait at the next junction.

These selfish fuckwits don't appear to be able to grasp that though so things are still dangerous due to their childish twattery.

[-] mbirth@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 week ago

I’m all for survival of the fittest. If people are too stupid to stay on the pavement, it’s on them. Why let drivers suffer to protect those idiots that blindly run into traffic?

Maybe we should ban ALL cars to get traffic related injuries to 0… 🤦‍♂️

[-] Yearly@lemmy.world 29 points 1 week ago

Yeah, we should

[-] ddash@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 1 week ago

I'd vote for that without hesitation

[-] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

[-] Naich@lemmings.world 11 points 1 week ago

Your last sentence is the only one that isn't idiotic.

[-] kibiz0r@midwest.social 6 points 1 week ago

That’s not the story of evolution! Read your Darwin! There’s like two pages on competition. Darwin, page after page after page is marveling at: oh my gosh, look at how species are collaborating and cooperating with one another for mutual survival!

https://youtu.be/rRWzOdUiqQE?t=1484

[-] j4yt33@feddit.org 4 points 1 week ago

Thinking about the absolute inability of the average Brit to drive like a sane person... we should

[-] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 1 week ago

haha yeah, why should we prevent deaths?

so like, would you just accept your entire family being shot as the natural way of things? if i throw you off a cliff that's just.. fine?

[-] mbirth@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 week ago

Shooting someone or throwing someone off a cliff is a deliberate act to hurt/kill someone else. No driver wants to kill someone. (Well, apart from these extremists that occasionally drive into German Christmas markets…)

People mindlessly walking into traffic, because that funny video on Instagram is more important than watching their surroundings, they are the problem.

[-] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

Higher speeds can cause drivers to lose control of their cars. People are killed on the side walks by drunk or speeding drivers frequently. Instead of blame shifting we should be taking steps to make the whole system safer.

[-] mbirth@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 week ago

If these drivers don’t obey the rules now, what makes you think they will obey them if you lower the speed limit?

And you don’t just lose control of your car at 30mph or even 50. Especially not in today’s cars with all their safety features.

[-] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

They don't have to lose full control. They could be following too closely and swerve onto the sidewalk to avoid a collision with a car and end up striking a pedestrian.

Speeders will stick out even more making them easier to spot in traffic. The reduced speed limit should also be accompanied by lane narrowing, speed humps, and other traffic calming techniques.

[-] mbirth@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 week ago

They don’t have to lose full control. They could be following too closely and swerve onto the sidewalk to avoid a collision with a car and end up striking a pedestrian.

This is a matter of the human factor - and you can never make that disappear. There will always be the odd idiot driver.

The reduced speed limit should also be accompanied by lane narrowing, speed humps, and other traffic calming techniques.

This is totally fine for housing areas, but definitely not for through-roads. There's no one-for-all solution in the same way our bodies don't have only one size of blood vessel.

[-] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

The reduced speed limit should come with traffic calming relative to the speed limit. If a through road has a 20 MPH zone that area should have lane narrowing and at least raised crossings.

[-] MNByChoice@midwest.social 5 points 1 week ago

Fantastic! wonder how people are adjusting? Walking more, pooling trips, or avoiding slow roads?

I wondered at the definition:

defined as roads where lamp-posts were no more than about 180 metres apart.

Will this result in worse lighting to avoid the reduced speed limit?

[-] ladel@feddit.uk 7 points 1 week ago

The thing about the lamp posts doesn't really have any significance. Roads in the UK have a default speed limit that doesn't need to be marked with the speed limit - it's 30mph for "normal" streets with regular lamposts, 60mph for other roads, 70mph if there's an embankment thing in between each side of the road. 180m spacing must just be the technical definition for what makes a road 30mph. In Wales, they made default 30mph roads 20mph.

[-] sping@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 1 week ago

Not sure why they'd adjust. It's mostly urban areas where top speed makes little difference to journey times. Journey times are generally decided by how long you spend waiting at every light and intersection.

[-] theo@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago

I have personally found that roads are nicer to walk along with people going slower, but I haven't necessarily noticed more people walking. I think part of the issue is the way that new housing has been built where it is still a significant distance away from the places you need to get to is still keeping people in cars.

I have not noticed any differences in the lighting, but the Welsh Gov did postpone all road building projects at a similar time, and for any smaller residential road building I would've thought the builders would want it to be low speed anyway.

[-] wewbull@feddit.uk 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

The 2023 figures (the latest ones and which had the 20mph change) also changed the way the statistics were gathered.

They state

It is likely that KSI collisions and casualties in 2023 are affected by Dyfed Powys police force migrating to Crash. This is further discussed in our quality report.

(KSI is "Killed or seriously injured". Crash is the new collection method)

100 people is about a 10% variance. To call that "striking" when there's also a change in record keeping is bullshit. You need more data.

[-] vpol@lemm.ee 4 points 1 week ago

I’m ok with the limit itself, I just want a dedicated button on my steering wheel to turn on/off 20mph speed limit.

[-] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

but vroom vroom!? what's the point of buying a overwrought shitwagon if they can't vroom vroom?

[-] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

downvotes from vroom vroom fuckwits lol.

y'all have no fucking rational for your bullshit, just smooth brains and hairy knuckles because vroom vroom is all you can fucking do

[-] its_prolly_fine@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago

What wete they before?

[-] L3G1T1SM3@lemm.ee 3 points 1 week ago

21

[-] ladel@feddit.uk 2 points 1 week ago

30mph

this post was submitted on 22 Mar 2025
136 points (100.0% liked)

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