141
Because they would be privatized and maintained by the cheapest ass companies and they would do a shit job of maintaining the cars and there's no way in hell I'm sleeping in a public bed that is poorly maintained.
Interestingly, the video goes into exactly why there are so many quality sleeper train offerings in Europe compared to North America. In North America, most of the tracks are privately-owned freight rail, and the rest is a patchwork of local monopolies of passenger rail (e.g., Amtrak, Via Rail, regional/commuter rail, etc.), and none of them are being made to cooperate or allow interoperability.
Whereas in Europe, having so many countries in such close proximity, they were forced to make their systems interoperable and standardized and allowing open access (much like roads are open access to drivers or buses), so what you get is many state-run operators and private operators in a competitive market without local monopolies. The result is high competitiveness, high standardization, high interoperability, and thus high quality and availability of service for competitive prices.
Not really. The tracks can only take so many trains, so one more operator just pushes other trains off the track. Which might be fine if it meant that the trains that did run were hyper-competitive. But they're not, because the train companies tend to get a near monopoly on a particular kind of service (fast trains vs stopping trains, for example). And if there are two companies running the same service, you'll only have half as many trains to choose from for the return journey. It's a ridiculous thing.
I should point out that I am speaking from the UK, which privatised its trains with indecent haste and far more destructive enthusiasm than many other EU countries. But EU-required rail privatisation is a fucking disaster. It makes no sense.
Public transport is best run as a monopoly and is too vital a part of economic infrastructure to leave in the hands of idle shareholders.
If Europeans (in general) love sleeper trains, why are there so little of those? Even in Russia, sleeper trains are still the main and preferred way of transportation between most regional centers (for the majority of travelers I would say it is "default" one), while in the EU most destinations are not even covered by a sleeper. I hope new companies like "European Sleeper" blossom because I personally prefer sleepers very much, but to say "Europeans love those" is untrue, since it is still mostly something exotic.
It’s more of a comeback moment and it takes time to reno all the old trains. I love the Nightjet but let’s be honest, the cars themselves are very funky.
I live 15 minutes walking from a European Sleeper stop and can’t wait to use it.
There were many more of these lines like 20 years ago. But these idiots abandoned these lines because for whatever reason. I'll never understand why plane is developed and supported like it is and train is completely abandoned. Our politicians are useless shits is my best hypothesis at this point.
Because I have so little time off, by the time the train gets there it’s time to go home so I can make it to work on Monday.
My main thing now why I go for cars/planes over train right now, is train is just expensive. For where I’m at most places I’ve checked itd sadly cost more to take the Amtrak then it is for a plane ticket. If trains were cheaper then I wouldn’t mind at all.
If a train ticket is even 1.5x times the plane ticket, I'd pick the train ticket every time. Unfortunately it's usually quite a bit more expensive.
I don't need all the idling, waiting in lines, baggage restrictions, expensive mediocre food, etc.
I've done overnight Amtrak trips in a "Roomette". My way of looking at it is the journey is part of the vacation whereas flying is the means to get you where you're going. A cross country train trip can take a few days requiring multiple overnights. If you factor in what a hotel would cost plusmeals (Amtrak includes two meals a day) then that offsets the cost. Besides that you can carry on drinks and snacks plus you don't have to pay a fee for luggage. I've met a lot of nice people on the train, it's definitely a more civilized way to travel compared to the airline cattle cars. Though it won't appeal to everyone It's more for older people with a lot of spare time that always dreamed of driving across the US.
Amtrak is on my bucket list. I'm in Europe so I'm more familiar with international trains here.
I quite love the relaxed mode of travel, though I'm yet to experience a night train though. I might hop on one of those new lines that are opening up across Europe. The ultimate dream of course is a system like China but with fewer human rights violations.
After riding Amtrak you may feel like your human rights have been violated LOL. I joke of course, just know some routes are notorious for being late. Unlike Europe our train terminals aren't always located in the center of town and if you miss a connecting train the next one may not be until the next day. Most people in the US don't get much vacation time so this is another reason they avoid Amtrak.
Yeah I just came back from a US trip a few weeks ago and considered NY to Washington, but ended up with a rental car for convenience. The DC metro system seems decent though.
Last time I looked at a sleeper car for my trip on Amtrak it was like $1500. Regular seat was $300.
Probably the two coasts are too far for 8h sleep vs Europe's shorter edges-to-core trips.
You're saying it's because people in Europe would only ever travel halfway across, whereas in the states they travel all the way from coast to coast? 😂
It was a half-assed 0th order attempt (also before watching the video), yes :) looking at dimensions and population centre distribution.
The opposing argument is pretty logical too though. The US being so spread out could make sleeper train rides much more attractive compared to extensive long-haul drives where you must be attentive.
It’s a complicated issue that goes beyond the geographical differences.
Car centric cities vs walkable ones. Lower fuels costs and bigger cars vs more expensive fuel and smaller cars. And in this specific comparison, an utterly terrible passenger train experience with minimal usage vs a competitive and robust system utilized by many. A bit of a chicken/egg issue there too.
Yes, but the major factor invoked by think-tanks (which admittedly only care about aviation and car industries) is always that the low-population-density makes track-laying and maintenance unprofitable outside freight, unlike in Europe or Asia, I can get you one example of such a report.
These cost calculations probably aim for optimising cost and not for CO2 emissions :/ anyway, good explanation with the decentralised and public-private mesh rail network
Valid point, especially as rail is more expensive compared to highway and air. At least on its face without emissions and other hard-to-quantify factors.
Many moving parts would have to come together for it to be more viable in the US, and there’s still no guarantee it’ll ever be cheaper. Or popular.
I used to be in a rare situation where I could actually use a light rail to commute and avoid a terrible 45 minute to hour-long drive. I really enjoyed the free time in the train compared to stress in the car. But nearly every one of my coworkers refused the train because it wasn’t massively cheaper and for other relatively-minor reasons. It was eye opening for me.
the low-population-density makes track-laying and maintenance unprofitable
Yet no one cares how much municipalities have to keep going into debt to subsidize the creation of those low population areas in the first place.
freedom train, in the land of the fee
I have a hard enough time sleeping anywhere that isn’t my own bed. No way I’d ever get any sleep on one of these.
Downvoting this comment solves the problem how?
Europeans don't love sleeper trains. A very small subset of us do. The rest of us stay away, because being essentially trapped in a 6 berth room with unknown creeps of any gender, is the opposite of safe travel.
Europeans love travelling by train, but sleepers are used only by a small minority.
Umm, in Finland there are sleeping cabins for 1-3 people and you need to reserve the whole cabin. No randos.
Ok, I guess I should amend it with "... and aren't prepared to pay 5-10x the flight fare to book a full cabin to avoid randos".
Unless you're travelling in a 4-6 person group, the costs are prohibitive. You need to deal with the creeps.
Just checked the prices for a round trip a while ago to Vienna from Amsterdam by train (Nightjet, full cabin booked) and by plane with KLM for 2 people. Prices were very similar.
this post was submitted on 26 Aug 2023
141 points (100.0% liked)
Fuck Cars
9629 readers
397 users here now
A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!
Rules
1. Be Civil
You may not agree on ideas, but please do not be needlessly rude or insulting to other people in this community.
2. No hate speech
Don't discriminate or disparage people on the basis of sex, gender, race, ethnicity, nationality, religion, or sexuality.
3. Don't harass people
Don't follow people you disagree with into multiple threads or into PMs to insult, disparage, or otherwise attack them. And certainly don't doxx any non-public figures.
4. Stay on topic
This community is about cars, their externalities in society, car-dependency, and solutions to these.
5. No reposts
Do not repost content that has already been posted in this community.
Moderator discretion will be used to judge reports with regard to the above rules.
Posting Guidelines
In the absence of a flair system on lemmy yet, let’s try to make it easier to scan through posts by type in here by using tags:
- [meta] for discussions/suggestions about this community itself
- [article] for news articles
- [blog] for any blog-style content
- [video] for video resources
- [academic] for academic studies and sources
- [discussion] for text post questions, rants, and/or discussions
- [meme] for memes
- [image] for any non-meme images
- [misc] for anything that doesn’t fall cleanly into any of the other categories
Recommended communities:
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS