It's only offensive to a specific group of people : whitepeopletwitter

[-] DirkMcCallahan@lemmy.world 78 points 5 days ago

If you treat minorities (or really, people in general) with respect, then you should have no qualms about learning about how they've been poorly treated in the past.

Sadly, conservatives never treat minorities with respect, and so they don't want to learn about how history judges bigots like them.

[-] Bytemeister@lemmy.world 29 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Anyone offended by history needs to reflect on their priorities and identity.

I'm not offended that white people claimed this land at the point of a sword, and even worse, in the embrace of a smallpox blanket. Horrified, yes, but not offended. I'm not offended that the backbone of the economy for a hundred years was built on the backs of stolen people on stolen land.

I'm not offended by history.

What I am offended by is the present. I'm offended that people who have been oppressed and started out life with less than nothing have been told by the privileged elite to "pull themselves up by their own bootstraps like the rest of us did". That's fucking vile. I'm offended that we keep trying to whitewash confederate slave owning generals, instead of teaching who they really were, and what they really killed for, and ordered other people to die for. Be offended about what we are doing now, and use history as the reason why we should change it.

[-] DNS@discuss.online 8 points 5 days ago

It's incredibly jarring to have the burden of knowledge while others revel in their own ignorance. As a minority and a former Marine, I am deeply ashamed and disappointed in my fellow Americans.

[-] djsoren19 2 points 4 days ago

It's hard to really blame them, public education in the U.S. has been a nightmare for decades now. How can people be expected to learn from history if they're not even being taught to read?

[-] ContriteErudite@lemmy.world 4 points 4 days ago

I do not think the problem is education, but a fundamental trait about human nature. Education, as an institution, can only lay the groundwork; it cannot instill the intrinsic desire to learn and grow. That fire must be kindled from within, yet so many treat learning as a phase of life rather than a lifelong pursuit.

There is a deep and persistent resistance to intellectual evolution in society. A cultural thread that regards curiosity with suspicion and introspection with discomfort. Too often, people conflate questioning with opposition, and the invitation to examine one's beliefs is perceived as an attack rather than an opportunity. This isn’t a failure of education; it’s a failure of cultural conditioning, perhaps even a failure of human instinct.

Nietzsche wrote: "You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist." Yet, instead of seeking out and embracing fluidity, many anchor themselves to certainty, mistaking stagnation for stability. They prefer to defend what they are rather than work toward what they could be. This anti-intellectual obstinacy isn't uniquely American or modern; it's something that's been with us from the start. I do not think we cannot educate our way out of the problems we keep making for ourselves; it's going to have to be either revolution, or evolution.

[-] IzzyJ@lemmy.world 4 points 4 days ago

Its still frustrating though. Doubly so when you consider what American history actually is. Yes, we were started by colonizers and slavers. We also fought a war to throw off the British crown, fought a war to defeat those slavers and eventually brought abolition. And when they weaseled their way out of Reconstruction, we took to the streets. We marched to give women the right to vote and work, and to give queers the right to marry and bodily autonomy. And now, as a fascist traitor tries to undo all of that, we are called upon to uphold the tradition of our forefathers. To sweat, bleed, cry and die, until we live up to that pledge of liberty and justice for all.

[-] Bytemeister@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago

Right? Reading about European history, and that shit goes back to year 0 or further. Read American history, and it starts in the late 1400s... And that ought to tell you something real important right there.

[-] IzzyJ@lemmy.world 4 points 4 days ago

I get the point your making, but American history goes back much further once you count the Natives; which admittedly my last comment also fucks up with

[-] samus12345@lemm.ee 4 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

The thing that offends me about history is how we humans never learn a damn thing from it.

[-] lobut@lemmy.ca 31 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

I went to school in the UK. We had to learn a whole lot shittiness that we did in the past. It's sort of funny because I'm ethnically Chinese and I moved to Canada later on. Whenever something bad that the British did came up, I would always be made fun of.

I moved back to the UK from Canada again at a later date and we were watching a video about more bad stuff the British did as apart of our curriculum and I immediately felt flush with embarrassment. Then I remembered that everyone around me was British too.

I sometimes wonder if the Americans that chastise the Chinese for wiping out history like Tiananmen Square are those that advocate for wiping out Black History Month and wanting to wipe contribution from minorities on their websites right now.

To be clear, I think that Black History Month should just be apart of American history. Like integrated into the curriculum and books and stuff. However, you can't trust Republicans to just wipe it out entirely. They "say" they will and just never get around to doing it properly because Heaven forbid you feel a bit uncomfortable while learning things.

[-] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 16 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

The reverse isn't much better. I'm Dutch, and if you go to Indonesia, outside the cities there will often be people pointing out what awesome things the Dutch built "for them". It's super weird when the people your country exploited and abused start thanking you.

Indonesian person: "Oh, the town well, yeah the Dutch built that for us, but we can't maintain it, so now we walk down to the other well to get water. The Dutch were so nice to us. "

My brain: "Yeah, I can see how that totally makes up for a century and a half of murderously harsh exploitation and killing 200.000 indonesians when you tried to be independant"

My mouth: "Oh, that's... nice?"

Now, I get that everything the Dutch did kinda gets snowed under compared to what the Japanese and the Americans did in the span of a few decades, but I grew up when our history books moved from a half-page "And then there were some police actions in the East Indies, and suddenly there was Indonesia" and towards a somewhat more realistic picture.

[-] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 6 points 5 days ago

People get nostalgic for order and predictability that came at the point of a gun. “At least we had food and everything wasn't falling apart!” Plenty of Russians I’ve been around remember the “good old days” under authoritarian “communism” and were unhappy with the turmoil and unpredictability when the USSR collapsed, and they’re the same ones that are happy with Putin’s and trump’s authoritarian methodology and threat of violence to enforce compliance.

So people absolutely can have a fondness for their abusers, especially if freedom from them leads to unpredictability and poverty.

[-] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 4 points 5 days ago

Folks do it with Rome so its nothing new, the carcus of empires are far more noticeable than the corpses of the folks used in the foundations.

[-] samus12345@lemm.ee 2 points 4 days ago

[-] psmgx@lemmy.world 23 points 5 days ago

If you use the word "slaps" you're not talking to the population as a whole, you're talking to specific people. And likely ones who already agree with your point.

[-] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 8 points 5 days ago

Are you saying black people should use white vernacular when advocating for their equality?

[-] TheOctonaut@mander.xyz 9 points 5 days ago

Non-slang is not "white", or even American. Drag should understand the difficulty caused when drag invents terminology that needs to be explained to any outgroup who can't be expected to be familiar with words drag has only popularised recently. Doesn't drag think that if anything it's kind of exclusionary against second-language speakers?

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[-] meyotch@slrpnk.net 6 points 5 days ago

Slammed!

[-] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 5 days ago

BLASTS

[-] solsangraal@lemmy.zip 22 points 5 days ago

nothing triggers fragile white nationalist bumpkins like 1/12th of the year being set aside to recognize black people

[-] imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works 22 points 5 days ago

If you have morality doesn't it kind of suck to hear about century after century of slavery, violence, and exploitation?

Honestly I feel like if any type of history "slaps" then you're probably viewing it through a very narrow lens that omits an immense amount of human suffering. History is depressing as fuck. It can definitely serve a purpose to focus on the cool events and forget about the rest at times, but it's also misleading if that's all you do.

[-] Banana@sh.itjust.works 37 points 5 days ago

I think they mean learning about history slaps. History is both interesting and extremely important even when it's depressing.

Encouraging learning about history is something we should continue to do, even if it means using collloquialisms.

[-] imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works 7 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

I guess it makes slightly more sense if they meant to say learning about history.

But still, I'm not sure making claims like this is going to reverse the eternal reality of young people not giving a shit about history and only starting to recognize its importance after they have made the same mistakes.

It's like "Math is fun kids!", "history slaps!". While young people just roll their eyes. Just because the slang is slightly updated doesn't actually make the message any more compelling.

I'm not sure why I'm being so negative here, I guess I just feel like the tweet is kinda dumb and virtue signalling and that's setting the tone for my interaction with it.

[-] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 6 points 5 days ago

I'm not sure you speak for all young people or why you're bringing up virtue signalling.

[-] imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works 3 points 5 days ago

I never claimed to speak for all young people? I have loved learning about history since I was a kid. But most people don't know much about history and don't have any interest in learning. They find it boring. That's just what I've noticed from being alive on this planet.

I bring up virtue signaling because it seems like the entire point of the tweet is for the person to signal that they are a moral and good person. I don't even understand the concept of being "offended by black history". Like what does that even mean and who does it apply to?

She's possibly talking about being offended by Black history month, which I guess is a thing? But in that case I would still disagree because you could be offended by it for the exact opposite reason, like how people are talking about Morgan Freeman not being a fan of it.

[-] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 8 points 5 days ago

I bring up virtue signaling because it seems like the entire point of the tweet is for the person to signal that they are a moral and good person. I don’t even understand the concept of being “offended by black history”. Like what does that even mean and who does it apply to?

I disagree with that entirely. It seems more angry to me and has nothing to do with how moral she is IMO.

She's black and probably is angry that people are offended if you mention the Tulsa race massacre because it's uncomfortable.

The Tulsa race massacre, also known as the Tulsa race riot or the Black Wall Street massacre,[12] was a two-day-long white supremacist terrorist[13][14] massacre[15] that took place between May 31 and June 1, 1921, when mobs of white residents, some of whom had been appointed as deputies and armed by city government officials,[16] attacked black residents and destroyed homes and businesses of the Greenwood District in Tulsa, Oklahoma. The event is considered one of the worst incidents of racial violence in American history.[17][18] The attackers burned and destroyed more than 35 square blocks of the neighborhood—at the time, one of the wealthiest black communities in the United States, colloquially known as "Black Wall Street."[19]

Or that most of the original men who started the US held slaves.

Thirty-four of the 47 men depicted in the famous "Declaration of Independence" painting were slaveholders.

You probably don't think that way, so you don't see it. I'm not going to pretend I know what her intent is either, I'm just guessing as well.

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[-] rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works 4 points 5 days ago

Nah. Robert Smalls slaps.

[-] imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works 4 points 5 days ago

Robert Smalls was a really awesome dude. The historical circumstances that determined the course of his life are profoundly tragic.

If you view his life from a cinematic perspective, yeah it slaps. From a historical perspective, he lived and died and the societal conditions which he struggled against remained essentially unchanged. He's a historical footnote.

[-] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 7 points 5 days ago

I don't have strong feelings one way or another, with one exception: why in the hell did anyone think it was okay to own a person and why the fuck did it continue for as long as it did?

That's seriously fucked up.

I'm not a person of color, so I don't think my opinion matters much in the discussion. Black history is just a part of the history of humanity. It should not be erased, it should be viewed as a lesson, like most of the rest of history.

[-] alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 days ago

why in the hell did anyone think it was okay to own a person and why the fuck did it continue for as long as it did?

Because it made them a lot of money. You can go back to any point in history and find people saying slavery is immoral, and not just the enslaved people.

[-] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 2 points 4 days ago

So what you're saying is.... Capitalism is the problem.

DOWN WITH THE SYSTEM!

[-] maxalmonte14@lemmy.world 10 points 5 days ago

Reminds me when Morgan Freeman said he didn't want a Black History Month, I immediately went like "dude, shut the f*** up".

[-] Diddlydee@feddit.uk 21 points 5 days ago

Surely he was just saying 'All history is our history. Why would you relegate it to a month and label it?' He's allowed to feel aggrieved as it does feel like apportioning it to something lesser, like 'Here,have the short month then shut up about it.'

[-] solsangraal@lemmy.zip 10 points 5 days ago

i'm sure he'll be happy to know that all talk of black history, period, will be gone, as soon as pres elmo gets his way

[-] expatriado@lemmy.world 4 points 5 days ago

there are two people i lost some respect due to a shitty r/iama: Woody Harrelson and Morgan Freeman

[-] dohpaz42@lemmy.world 4 points 5 days ago

To paraphrase an old saying, “Never get to know your heroes.”

With the exception of Robin Williams. He is, was, and always will be the GOAT.

[-] rainrain@sh.itjust.works 4 points 5 days ago

I'm watching a science fiction movie and it suddenly starts focusing on black history instead.

So I'm offended by that bait and switch, or whatever you call it.

Is that valid?

[-] GorGor@startrek.website 8 points 5 days ago

Why choose "offended" as the verb here? I'm not saying I've never seeing an offensive movie.... But what you described is an annoyance at most.

It's almost as if you are claiming offense to be contrarian.

[-] rainrain@sh.itjust.works 3 points 5 days ago

I chose it because the op chose it. To avoid confusion.

[-] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 7 points 5 days ago

So the OP described an experience of black history erasure. You chimed in with a hypothetical movie that you wouldn't be offended by but wouldn't enjoy, but you used the term "offended" just so you could participate and make the experience about you?

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[-] Initiateofthevoid@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 4 days ago

Let's try our own bait and switch:

I'm watching a science fiction show and suddenly they start focusing on American history instead.

So I'm offended by the bait and switch, or whatever you call it.

Is that valid?

The answer is still no, it's not valid to equate a movie to, oh... systematic oppression. If you didn't like the movie, you didn't like the movie.

[-] zurohki@aussie.zone 3 points 5 days ago

Depends - would you be okay with it focusing on white history?

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