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Is it really just because of the fentanyl situation? I know there is a huge disagreement with how the strict rules for prescribing opioids are so tight even for chronic pain patients like myself who can’t participate in life without em struggle to find a provider who is willing to prescribe us them.

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[-] Dick_Justice@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago

Because it's low hanging fruit. Politicians can be "tough" on chronic pain patients and frame it as furthering the battle against the "opioid epidemic" without having to address the actual kraken in the bathtub, which is shady, Chinese bootleg fentanyl flooding the US through our leaky International mail system. The opioid crisis and epidemic of overdoses isn't fueled by Grandma selling off her "extra" 5mg percosets, its coming from illegally smuggled fentanyl being sold illegally on the streets. Chronic pain patients are just a convenient sock puppet for the constant campaign mode our politicians are in, and they don't care who they hurt to get elected or stay in power. Imho.

[-] Peacecraft535@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I agree with everything you said here, but just came by to say, "Kraken in the bathtub" is one of my favorite new idioms.

[-] tallwookie@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago

opioids were over prescribed for years and years with no thought to the consequences - mainly because the person writing the scrip was compensated for it by the drug manufacturers.

this led to tens of thousands of people who became addicted to opioids and lacked the willpower to fight being dope sick to get clean. even once you're clean, relapse is common. the reality is that many people are weak willed - but no one wants to discuss that.

now cheap synthetic opioids are easily mass manufactured in China and Mexico and they are widely available & flood the streets. examples: https://www.youtube.com/@talesfromthestreets/videos & https://www.youtube.com/@examiningportland/videos (there are others but those are the ones I've seen recently).

[-] GlitzyArmrest@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

It may be low, but it's still thousands. I had knee surgery last year and didn't take opiates because I'm at higher risk for addiction.

[-] Jo@readit.buzz 8 points 1 year ago

Your 1% figure comes from misrepresentation of a 'study', pushed by Purdue and others for criminal gain.

The One-Paragraph Letter From 1980 That Fueled the Opioid Crisis

Purdue Pharma, which makes OxyContin, starting using the letter’s data to say that less than one percent of patients treated with opioids became addicted. Pain specialists routinely cited it in their lectures. Porter and Jick’s letter is not the only study whose findings on opioid addiction became taken out of context, but it was one of the most prominent. Jick recently told the AP, “I’m essentially mortified that that letter to the editor was used as an excuse to do what these drug companies did.”

Don't get me wrong, pain is miserable and treatment needs to be better. But around 80% of opioid addictions start with prescriptions for people in genuine pain. What percentage of prescriptees that is, I don't know. But it's not a trivial issue, and it is a very difficult problem to solve.

[-] SpezCanLigmaBalls@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I have a friend who is in school for being a nurse and she had an exam and one of the questions was about this percentage which is why I brought this up because less than 1% was the correct answer. She told me this figure since she knows I’m on em. Is this school just completely in the wrong then for teaching this to nursing students and I’m sure doctors etc?

[-] Jo@readit.buzz 6 points 1 year ago

I linked an article about how that stat became widely cited, based on almost nothing. It's not uncommon in medicine, especially when it suits Pharma. I teach medical students and the first thing we teach them is that half the course will be out of date by the time they graduate and the other half is already out of date.

That's not to say that addiction rates can't be kept very low with responsible prescribing and there's nothing wrong with reassuring patients who may be concerned about swapping one problem for another. But this particular factoid was cultivated by drug companies wanting to encourage irresponsible prescribing. And they succeeded.

There's a brilliant drama on Disney/Hulu called Dopesick which tells the story (including of this statistic). It's an excellent, and enraging, watch.

[-] SpezCanLigmaBalls@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Thanks for your input, appreciate it

[-] pacology@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Because 1% of a few million people is still thousands of them.

Also, I’m not sure if the 1% figure is really that accurate, as it should become much higher when people are on them long term. The problem is that most opioids were prescribed to be safe for long-term use, which wasn’t true.

[-] bric@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

In this case it's more that 1% of hundreds of millions is still millions. Opiates get prescribed to basically everyone at some point in their lives, so it's basically just 1% of the population

[-] Widget@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago

I'd also imagine at least part of it is the same as how normal people seem to think ADHD people with amphetamine prescriptions are just constantly high.

They don't realize that whatever good feelings they're getting from taking 100mg of amphetamines at once don't apply at all to people chronically on small extended doses.

[-] kestrel7@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

Yeah I'm not aware of any studies that link stimulant-based ADHD medication with abuse of street meth. But it's a pretty common meme amongst doctors for some reason.

[-] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 year ago

I think it's because of rampant Adderall abuse among university students. However, many doctors will prescribe something other than Adderall now like concerta or Vyvanse because they are harder to abuse.

[-] envis10n@waveform.social 6 points 1 year ago

I'm on a pain management plan that includes an opioid. It requires mandatory 3 month check-ins with my doctor, and my previous pharmacy had a pharmacist that would ask me if I "really needed it". That pharmacy delayed my refills so much sometimes that I would go into withdrawal. And if I called to ask what was going on, they would start asking me why I was so concerned and if I was actually using them.

New pharmacy only has an issue if I pre-emptively request a refill, but even then I just explain my work schedule and issues with remembering to submit the refill and they just hold it until the normal refill date.

[-] SpezCanLigmaBalls@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

I finally found a pain management clinic that will work with me and prescribe me opiates but it’s gonna take a bit of trial and error to find the right pill and dosage. She requires monthly check ins. I’m currently on tramadol 300mg but it isn’t enough so I got an apt july 10th to go to stronger stuff.

I’m sorry about your pharmacy that gave you issues. I’ve read so many stories about that and I can’t believe that happens. I’m glad you found a better one

[-] Centillionaire@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

So I don’t know if you’ve read about all of the lawsuits against pharmacies in the news. Basically, court found that pharmacy companies gave out prescriptions they should t have. And these are all scripts prescribed by the doctor. This changed the whole retail pharmacy policy. Pharmacies are actively pushing pharmacists to find any reason to deny the script so as to not get sued again.

Each pharmacist still is able to give their own judgement, but now has guidelines from their company that they should follow.

https://www.bmj.com/content/379/bmj.o2688

[-] linearchaos@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

How exactly do they count addictions when someone has an ongoing prescription?

[-] SpezCanLigmaBalls@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Good question. I’d be interested in seeing an answer

I'm not sure if this answers your question but this is what was explained to me when I worked in retail pharmacy.

Patient has opioid addiction from being on painkillers too long/too high a dose/abusing script. The patient has multiple doctors and specialists and requests painkillers from as many as they can get.

Doctors then become wise to the situation. Set the patient up on a "pain plan." Now the patient can only fill opioid scripts from one doctor at one pharmacy.

[-] jerrimu@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago
[-] Zi@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Illicit fentanyl that did not come from a prescription, to be precise. Fentanyl can be an important and helpful medication when used correctly.

[-] postscarce@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

It's not just fentanyl. I remember a lot of news about the "opioid epidemic" before fentanyl was a story.

[-] jerrimu@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

fentanyl was on the streets long before it was a story

[-] Elden_Potato@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

New doc here; its a confusing conversation all around. In training management of controlled meds is often an elephant in the room topic with no one really wanting to address it in too much detail. That's mostly because everyone has a different view on it as the powers that be (mostly use state board of pharmacy as guideline) are pretty vague. Most can agree that regular visits (every 3 months at least), drug screens at least yearly, and a controlled use agreement contact between provider and patient is the standard of care. Everything in between that is subject to vary. To further complicate matters medical literature on these meds consistently finds them ineffective for chronic management many disorders including back pain which is in contrast to conventional opinion. Many providers see this as reason enough to sparingly use them. Regardless, in my experience so far whether they truly work or not most patient are very reluctant to stop these medications once started.

[-] SpezCanLigmaBalls@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Do the patients say they help? I can see them being reluctant if it does help. But there is always the question of if the patients are lying or not if they are still in pain.

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this post was submitted on 18 Jun 2023
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