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[-] mipadaitu@lemmy.world 212 points 4 months ago

Found it. Since the gas goes through the same hose as the other blends, if you're buying gas you need to get at least 4 gallons so the previous gas flushes out what was left in the hose from the previous sale, and fills enough of the container that the blend is primarily what you selected.

If you buy E15 and fill your tanks, then the next guy buys E10 and only gets 1 gallon, they might end up with a higher ethanol mix than intended, and if they use that on a small motor, like a chainsaw, it could ruin the seals.

[-] PlutoniumAcid@lemmy.world 160 points 4 months ago

I'm in Europe and I have never in my life seen a gas station that dispenses every fuel through just one hose.

Every fuel has its own hose and "pistol". Each "pump" has two or three or four hoses.

[-] ME5SENGER_24@lemmy.world 80 points 4 months ago

In America, if a corner exists a company will cut it.

[-] jonne@infosec.pub 9 points 4 months ago

It feels like blending hoses would be a more complicated setup?

[-] EldritchFeminity 11 points 4 months ago

Multiple tanks hooked up to one valve and hose vs. multiple tanks with their own separate valves and hoses.

Obviously, it's a different kind of valve in the first setup to prevent backflow into other lines, but that's probably about the extent of it. With the second setup, you probably need to run a new line and pump for each station for each gas type, compared to just tying the tanks into the one valve and pump per station.

I'm not a plumber or anything, though, so take it with a grain of salt.

[-] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 13 points 4 months ago

I feel like we should specific for Europeans or whomever that there is definitely a different hose for Diesel

[-] HiddenLychee@lemmy.world 48 points 4 months ago

In the US only diesel gets its own pump, at least in my experience

[-] ShepherdPie@midwest.social 14 points 4 months ago

Same though I do recall seeing pumps with multiple hoses for each grade a lot more frequently back in the '90s and '00s.

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[-] roofuskit@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago

In America drastically different fuels like E85 and Diesel are dispensed with different hoses as mixing those with normal gasoline or vice versa in the wrong system could cause damage. But when it comes to different grades of just gasoline it's all the same hose. E10 or E15 are pretty much standard in many parts of the Country of Corn (USA) so they are the primary form of gasoline available for normal cars.

[-] Dinsmore@sh.itjust.works 9 points 4 months ago

Here's a pretty typical american pump: https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-shell-station-gas-pump-135764267.html You can select diesel with the green button, which comes out of the green handled hose on the left, but any other option for regular gas (87/89/93 in that picture) comes out of the right hose.

[-] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 8 points 4 months ago

Every fuel has its own hose and “pistol”. Each “pump” has two or three or four hoses.

While those do exist in the States too, a single hose and "pistol" is used for all grades of gasoline and the operator presses a button to select their grade of fuel. The only time there is a guaranteed separate is between desil and gasoline:

The button leads to some interesting minor social problems. The expectation is that the use uses their hand or fingers to press the button, but the buttons are usually disgustingly dirty, so that lead many to using the tip of the "pistol" to smack the grade of gasoline which may put a drop or two of gasoline on the button. So those that come next and use their hands end up smelling like gasoline.

No longer interacting with public gas pumps is one minor joy of driving an EV.

[-] rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee 12 points 4 months ago

i'm gonna be real with you buddy i have never seen a "disgustingly dirty" fuel button so I think the people in your area just grody. no offense to present company.

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(US) I've been to gas stations in big cities, small towns, little collections of buildings that have no official name but they have a dollar general and a gas station, etc...

I've seen several kinds.

Single hose to dispense 87-93 ("normal") gasoline, and one for diesel

One hose for normal gas, one for diesel, and one for high-ethanol

One for all gasoline types and one for diesel

One super fancy stainless-steel-clad gas station that looked like something from retrofuturism had 5 hoses, one each for 87,90,93, e15, diesel, and the farthest end pump had a line for kerosine.

Never seen a combined gas and diesel hose though.

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[-] brap@lemmy.world 42 points 4 months ago

I'm not from the US so my biggest surprise here is that you don't get separate hoses for each grade.

[-] bleistift2@feddit.de 12 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Imagine getting Diesel in Germany. “Sorry, that was actually 15 liters of regular gas. ¯_(ツ)_/¯”

Edit: Ok, it’s not as bad as I imagined, since this picture seems to be about E15/E10, not diesel/regular.

[-] CraigeryTheKid@lemm.ee 31 points 4 months ago

diesel absolutely DOES get a separate hose, every time

[-] mipadaitu@lemmy.world 12 points 4 months ago

Diesel are often entire separate sections of the gas station.

Most of the pumps in the US have the same hose for 87/89/92 octane pumps that are E10 (10% Ethanol) and if there is a higher ethanol like E15 or E85, they're usually a separate hose.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 29 points 4 months ago

Thanks for the explanation! I wonder what they would do if they caught someone dispensing only 3 gallons.

[-] Windex007@lemmy.world 39 points 4 months ago

Federal law states the punishment is a bare bottom spanking.

😳

[-] bazus1@lemmy.world 22 points 4 months ago

Federal law states the reward is a bare bottom spanking.

FTFY

[-] stinerman@midwest.social 17 points 4 months ago

I'm sorry officer. Looks like I only bought 3 gallons. I guess you'll have to...punish...me.

[-] mipadaitu@lemmy.world 17 points 4 months ago

Probably nothing. I guess it's possible if you kept switching back and forth between pumping a gallon of premium and a gallon of regular on different pumps to try to steal a few dollars of higher grade, they can use it to give you a ticket, but I'm pretty sure they won't really care if you were just topping off a tank of gas with 3 gallons before a road trip.

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[-] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 60 points 4 months ago

These signs also exist in the Netherlands, and the reason is because pumps are calibrated to a certain accuracy (say, 1%, for convenience).

But in the real world, you can get a lot of variation from temperature, to how long it's been since a pump was used, to how full the underground tank is. They all made a difference, mostly at the start and end of pumping.

So you get a law in percentages, and you get a real world deviation in volume. Obviously, if your pump is short 50ml on 1 liter, you're off by 5% and breaking the law. But of you slap a sticker on, telling everyone they "must" get 5 liters, you're off 50ml on 5L, a perfect 1% deviation and entirely within the limit.

But 8 gallon is BIG volume, damn.

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[-] Yaztromo@lemmy.world 50 points 4 months ago

Does this pump also dispense marked fuels through the same hose?

In my province of residence gas stations near farming communities often sell “marked fuel” (fuel with an added red dye in it) that are taxed less, and which are intended for farming machinery, road work equipment, boats, and other non-highway use only. If you’re caught with red-dyed fuel being used for any other purpose you can be charged with an offence, and levied fines or other penalties.

If you dispense a small amount of regular gasoline after another purchaser had bought marked gasoline, the dye in the fuel remaining in the lines likely isn’t diluted enough to tell the difference — and you could (hypothetically) then be charged with possessing marked fuel without the proper paperwork.

(Anywhere I’ve ever seen marked fuels sold usually has a separate hose for the marked fuel to be dispensed from to prevent this from happening — but I don’t know your gas station or where you live, so maybe they rely on dilution rather than separation to differentiate?)

[-] Sam_Bass@lemmy.world 11 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

The rural area i live in has pumps thst give non-ethanol fuel but is not dyed and costs more than the e85 they sell. No placards anywhere stating any federal fueling minimums either. I routinely fill a 2 gallon tank of nonethanol for my old yard equipment and have never had an issue

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[-] rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee 8 points 4 months ago

how often do the police pull people over to check their fuel color though?

[-] Everythingispenguins@lemmy.world 15 points 4 months ago

It is not uncommon for semi trucks and other heavy haul vehicles to be checked. They can frequently hold several hundred gallons of fuel. So there's a real cost saving using off-road diesel. Though if I remember correctly fine is $10,000 for the first offense so that wipes out your savings pretty quickly.

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[-] Anticorp@lemmy.world 48 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Fucking 15% ethanol now? So they basically just raised the price of gasoline 5%, and reduced the fuel efficiency of everyone's vehicle, without so much as a peep. Where is this?

[-] corbin@infosec.pub 25 points 4 months ago

E15 is a different blend of fuel, it's not at all gas pumps and regular 87/89/91 octane level fuel is still available (because not all cars can use E15 like the sticker says). Sheetz stations sell it in my area around Raleigh, NC.

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[-] waz@lemmy.world 11 points 4 months ago

I would expect it to also be less expensive but they don't show us that information.

I personally wouldn't mind if my fuel mileage goes down if the cost is also proportionally lower.

Also, ethanol has a energy density of roughly 2/3 that of gasoline, so yes e85 would have 5% less energy than gasoline with no ethanol, not e10, which is what I see as the listed price in most places. When doing a price comparison, it should be against e0, not e10 if you are expecting a 5% energy difference.

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[-] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 4 months ago

Would you prefer they ban driving? we simply cannot keep going as we are, things have to change and you can either change your habits alongside it, accept that you have to pay more, or whine as you keep pumping poison into the air and contribute to your own early death from climate change.

[-] ccunning@lemmy.world 44 points 4 months ago

Buying E10 fuel (a mixture that contains 10 percent ethanol) from a hose that also supplies E15 fuel (a mixture that contains 15 percent ethanol) must buy at least four gallons to protect customers following behind. Ethanol is hard on engines and less efficient than regular gasoline. E15 can even cause engine failure in smaller or older engines. So if you’re using a blender pump to buy E10 that sells both E15 and E10, the residual amount of E15 left in the hose from the previous customer could cause significant damage to those smaller and older engines—unless you purchase at least 4 gallons.

Source

[-] billiam0202@lemmy.world 26 points 4 months ago

Hold the fuck up.

Customer A buys 10 gallons of E15.

Customer B buys 1 gallon of E10 from the same pump.

Customer C buys 1 gallon of E10 from the same pump and puts it in his chainsaw. If that gallon ruins Customer C's chainsaw, it's legally Customer B's fault? What the fuck?

Forcing B to buy more gas than he might want, to protect the customer after him, because of the customer that came before him, is some horseshit.

[-] deegeese@sopuli.xyz 25 points 4 months ago

The gas companies bought a law to exempt themselves from liability.

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[-] evasive_chimpanzee@lemmy.world 14 points 4 months ago

This seems like it's flipped around backwards. The picture says you have to pump more than 4 gallons if you are getting E15, but the explanation seems to explain why someone pumping E10 would want to pump more than 4 gallons.

I bet the real reason is that someone could pump a couple of gallons of cheaper E15, knowing they'd actually receive E10, leaving the next person to actually get that gas.

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[-] mindlight@lemm.ee 26 points 4 months ago

Which is it, up to 15% or up to 10% ethanol?

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 12 points 4 months ago

It's 10% in the winter and 15% in the summer (at least that's the legal limit), although I think that's changing. So I guess they just said what the hell and put on both stickers?

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[-] wizzor@sopuli.xyz 8 points 4 months ago

I think there might be two options to the right (yellow stickers) indicating eg 95E15 and 98E10

[-] snooggums@midwest.social 16 points 4 months ago

It either violates federal law or it doesn't. May is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Not to mention there are signs for both up to 10% and up to 15%...

If the purpose of the warning is to make sure people get the blend they want then just say that.

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[-] Brawndo@kbin.social 15 points 4 months ago

Ethanol is wildy bad for the environment and is raising the cost of food.

I read somewhere awhile back that it takes something like 3 gallons of gasoline (through running farm equipment and transportation) to make 4 gallons of ethanol. That coupled with ethanol being less efficient that gasoline and causes more wear and rear on vehicles probably means that if we ditched it altogether we'd probably the same carbon emissions wise.

Also, for every acre of corn raised to go into ethanol, that's one acre not going into feed corn or other food crops so we're effectively raising the cost of food via limiting supply and competition.

The only people that benefit are farmers that recieve substantial subsidies to grow it and government personnel who administer said subsidies and elected officials that campaign on taking money from you the tax payer and funneling it into these programs.

The cost to all of us is diffused, probably no more than a few tens of dollars taken from us via taxes so nobody is gonna go stand up to these people and demand that we end this subsidy. The benefit to them is very focused and large so they have every interest to keep the cash flowing their way. Every interest to take money from all classes of people but most damaging to the poorest of people since those dollars mean more to them than richer peoples.

This wildest part is that you who is reading this right now is probably outraged that this program is in place but the even crazier part is that you can substitute this with practically any and all industries and they are all doing the exact same thing but for the things that you agree with, are perfectly fine with keeping those subsidies flowing. After all, it's only the other people that are greedy. The only real solution is to completely end all federal subsidies but I'm sure you'll disagree and say that XYZ is necessary because it's your special interest.

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[-] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 14 points 4 months ago

Fuck you if you own a motorcycle, I guess.

My RV200's tank only holds 1.7 gallons, and my CH50 will only take one. I guess I'm meant to just dispense the remaining three gallons onto the ground, then...?

[-] Melkath@kbin.social 12 points 4 months ago

From morocyclistonline.com:

Running your bike on E15 may cause your engine to run hot and could possibly damage your bike's catalytic convertor as well as cause crud buildup on your valves and pistons.

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[-] jeffw@lemmy.world 10 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I think it has to do with how it’s dispensed. If the person before you bought regular fuel, the hose still might have residual fuel from the other kind, meaning you could end up with a different ethanol level than expected. That’s a fire hazard. 4 gallons is probably overkill but better safe than sorry.

Edit: basically, if you accidentally get half a gallon of 10% ethanol fuel and half a gallon of 15% ethanol fuel, you actually have 12.5%.

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this post was submitted on 01 May 2024
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