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[-] rustydomino@lemmy.world 110 points 7 months ago

I have this theory that Americans suck at math because they insist on sticking with the imperial measurement system and so nothing makes mathematical sense - Americans intuitively just think in every day units qualitatively. Whereas the rest of the world uses metric, so base 10 math just comes naturally.

Source: I am a US STEM professor. Our students suck at math.

[-] volvoxvsmarla@lemm.ee 61 points 7 months ago

When I was 16, I went to high school in California for half a year as an exchange student. I am from Germany and as a junior, I would have had something like my 4th or 5th year of chemistry in school, but out of necessity (or laziness) I took beginner's chemistry.

For exercises I had been paired with two girls who used to try to make fun of me (I think; I never really figured out what their deal was), and asked me stupid questions about myself or Germany. I remember they once asked laughingly whether I like oranges because I was wearing a t-shirt with an orange print.

Well, then one day, there we go. Converting exercises. You have students from 9th to 12th grade in groups of 3-4, trying to convert imperial measurements to metrics. And then metrics to metrics. Basically, for a couple of weeks, we just converted stuff like 14 cm to mm or dm. I forgot so much about my time abroad but the most vivid memory I have is of the girls looking at each other (after a couple of days and repeated explanations) and one says "the decimal system just makes no sense" and the other one quietly and slowly nods in agreement. I ask them how it makes no sense. "Well it just makes no sense." It's just base 10 everything and the rest is practice, it's not different from inches to feet. "No but you see this makes sense. There are 12 inches in a foot", continued by a list of how many shmekels make up a whoopsiedoodle and how many dingelings fit into a hybotron.

I understand how you first have to get accustomed to new units and how conversion might need practice when you aren't familiar with the prefixes, especially when you aren't too experienced in the stem field. But I am still flabbergasted by the statement that having a system where everything is just base 10 and then you shift the decimal point around makes no sense. We are talking about fellow juniors here. How do you make it to age 16/17 never having heard of a decimal point or having trouble with base 10 conversion? HOW CAN YOU SAY IT MAKES NO SENSE?! It's the simplest, most logic based system there is!

[-] merc@sh.itjust.works 29 points 7 months ago

IMO metric also allows you to reason about things in your head more easily because doing base-10 calculations in your head is doable.

For example, "Each 1m section of a pipeline contains 20L of oil. The goal is to empty a 200 km section of pipe into trucks. If each truck can handle 20 tonnes of oil, how many trucks would be needed?" In metric that calculation is 20 * 1000 * 200 = 4 million L. 20 tonnes is approx 20,000 L since 1L of water is 1kg, so it's going to be at least within an order of magnitude of that for oil. 4M / 20k = 200.

With US customary units it would be "Each 1 foot section of a pipeline contains 1.5 gallons of oil. The goal is to empty a 100 mile section of pipe into trucks. If each can handle 20 tons of oil, how many trucks will be needed? To handle that calculation you'll have to convert feet to miles. Gallons to pounds, pounds to tons, etc. You can do it on paper, but all those weird conversions add massively to the difficulty.

[-] Holyhandgrenade@lemmy.world 21 points 7 months ago

There's a reason why the American science community has long converted to metric. You just can't do calculations like this quickly enough.

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[-] SkippingRelax@lemmy.world 14 points 7 months ago

Fuck me we did those conversions in primary school in Italy in the eighties. Can't remember what year exactly but we were prolly 7yo?

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[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 58 points 7 months ago

It may be that or it may be that our entire educational system has turned into shit through decades of low pay for teachers weeding out all the best people.

[-] humbletightband@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I am a US STEM professor.

Prove it! What is the speed of light in anacondas/average Snapchat duration?

Edit: around 10^11 anacondas per average daily snapchat usage among US teens

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[-] whoreticulture 12 points 7 months ago

I have a theory that Americans are great at math because they regularly work with base-12 systems.

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[-] herescunty@lemmy.world 56 points 7 months ago

Three scientists arguing over the definition of zero

Celsius says “zero is the freezing point of water”

Fahrenheit says “no, zero is the freezing point of ammonium chloride”

Kelvin says “hold my beer”

[-] umbrella@lemmy.ml 50 points 7 months ago

Kelvin: Zero is the freezing point of the universe

[-] SirQuackTheDuck@lemmy.world 31 points 7 months ago

Kelvin: Zero is the freezing point.
Scientists: Of what?
Kelvin: Yes.

[-] Paradachshund@lemmy.today 11 points 7 months ago

Is that true about fahrenheit? I've never heard that before.

[-] fhqwgads@possumpat.io 23 points 7 months ago

If I remember correctly, it's not the freezing point. Fahrenheit used a brine that included ammonium chloride to set 0 on his scale since it was the closest thing he could make in his lab that was a consistent temperature. The other end was body temperature, which he set at 96 if I'm remembering right since it's more easily divisible than 100. He was a little off on his body temperature measurements so it's considered a little higher than that now.

[-] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 27 points 7 months ago

It's more chaotic than that.

He started with the Romer scale (brine freezes at zero, water 7.5, boils at 60, body temperature 22.5), which he tweaked to not need fractions for plain water freezing and body temperature by fudging some numbers and multiplying by four.

This made water freeze at 30 and human body temperature 90. He recalibrated it so that it was 32 and 96 so that there were 64 degrees between them, so he could draw the markings by dividing the interval between them in half six times.

He then saw that water boiled at about 212 on this scale, so he tweaked it again so that water froze at 32 and boiled at 212, since they're 180 degrees apart, which is desirable because it puts them on opposite sides of a temperature gauge.

Because of these tweaks, the original brine temperature is now about 4F, and body temperature is 98.6.

The tweaks make sense if you know that Fahrenheit was making and selling temperature gauges, so taking the Romer scale and marking every quarter degree gets you the first Fahrenheit scale.
Then he tweaked it to make it easier to produce, and then again to fit in the dial better.

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[-] Hotzilla@sopuli.xyz 45 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

100C° is not death, it is Finnish sauna temp. Really, Sauna competitions start with 110C°. Famously in 2010 one Russian competitor died, and the Finn who won had to be sent to ER.

Edit: didn't know that they actually haven't held any competitions after that.

[-] jballs@sh.itjust.works 33 points 7 months ago

Sauna competitions

I appreciate how you just dropped this casually like of course everyone knows about Sauna competitions.

[-] Hotzilla@sopuli.xyz 12 points 7 months ago

Haha, sure, but there isn't much to know.

Sauna competition is that they go inside hot sauna and last one who comes out wins. They increase the temperature and throw water to the sauna stones. That humidity makes the temperature feel quite a lot harder (air is quite good insulator, which is why you don't boil).

In the competition quite often people got first degree burn injuries, which is quite crazy.

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[-] tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip 16 points 7 months ago

I think it means dead as in trying to live in a 100° environment. Kind of like the survival rule of 3s, where you can survive 3 weeks without food, 3 days without water, 3 hours in an extreme environment, and 3 minutes without air.

I guess it could say "unsustainable" instead of dead, but that's less snappy.

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[-] Kraven_the_Hunter@lemmy.dbzer0.com 34 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

This is why I'm Fahrenheit gang all the way. I'm not running lab experiments daily, but I am going outside all the time. If you have to express the temperature with decimal precision for everyday use, you've lost.

Edit: It's hilarious how easily you can piss people off by saying Fahrenheit is subjectively better as a human temperature scale. Too much of your identity is wrapped up in being able to talk temperature in multiples of ten, people. Chill out. Maybe something near 42 degrees. Sorry, meant to say 5.6 degrees for the nerds in here.

[-] RandomStickman@kbin.run 42 points 7 months ago

What? No one's using C to that precision outside the lab. It just depends on what you grew up with man. I know below 0 I need a winter jacket, ~10C chilly, ~20C is shorts weather, ~30C is hot, >40C is death. Perfectly practical everyday estimations.

For me the only advantage of F is you can say it's 69F out and bake things at 420F.

[-] EfreetSK@lemmy.world 25 points 7 months ago

Also let me point out one nice feature here - the freezing point is 0. Bellow it you can expect snow instead of rain, ice on the road, sidewalk, plants are in danger, etc. A lot of things and situations in your life are affected by this simple fact that water freezes so it's nice that we have it at 0.

Fahrenheit has 32°F ...

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[-] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 21 points 7 months ago

People who use Celsius don't typically casually refer to the temperature with a decimal place.

The comfortable range is more compressed, but just like you probably say 75 instead of 74.5, they say 24 instead of 23.889.

Fahrenheit does coincidentally line up nicely for subjective weather scales, so it's not offensive for that use, similar to how pint is a good cup size, but in general consistency is king and you're not loosing anything by compressing a scale, particularly when we basically already measure the temperature in five degree increments, and generally refer to in in units of ten.

[-] alvvayson@lemmy.world 17 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

As a metric person, I can confirm.

Indoor temperatures are basically 18-22 for most people most of the time.

15-25 covers the whole range of indoor temperatures that people with functioning heat or A/C would see.

For temperatures outside we commonly round to the nearest five:*

  • -5 and below: very cold winter weather
  • 0 cold winter weather
  • 5 mild winter weather
  • 10 autumn weather
  • 15 spring weather
  • 20 summer weather
  • 25 beach weather
  • 30 heatwave
  • 35 and higher heatwave in the Sahara

The only thing I admire of the Fahrenheit scale is that it can round to the nearest 10 and still be a little bit more precise than Celsius with the nearest 5. And when discussing fever temperatures, Celsius needs half degrees and Fahrenheit does not.

But it's an absolutely awful scale for cooking.

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[-] IHateReddit@lemmy.world 20 points 7 months ago

which temperature unit requires using decimals?

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[-] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 10 points 7 months ago

If you have to express the temperature with decimal precision for everyday use, you’ve lost.

I don't think it's necessary to do in Celsius though?

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[-] RandomStickman@kbin.run 10 points 7 months ago

Too much of your identity is wrapped up in being able to talk temperature in multiples of ten, people.

Wtf are you talking about? You're the one that brought up how your favourite unit is superior, and we're the one that has our identity wrapped up in something?

Chill out. Maybe something near 42 degrees. Sorry, meant to say 5.6 degrees for the nerds in here.

Do you know how math works? Of course you're gonna end up with decimals when you're starting from F. Why don't you chill out at 11? Oh, I mean 51.8 you narcissistic swine.

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[-] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 33 points 7 months ago

I really like your attention to detail here. Fahrenheit and Celsius both have degree symbols, but Kelvin doesn't -- just as it should be.

[-] whodatdair 29 points 7 months ago

Jokes on you I’m a tardigrade

[-] Chenzo@lemmy.world 28 points 7 months ago

Someone posted here once something like

Farienhiet is how humans feel. Celsius is how water feels. Kelvin is how atoms feel.

I kinda like that.

[-] Hillock@feddit.de 26 points 7 months ago

It only makes sense if you grow up with Fahrenheit. Otherwise Fahrenheit isn't how humans feels since most of us have no concept what these number mean.

If I would just go with 0 - cold 100 - hot I would assume 50 - perfect. But 50 is still chilly. 70-80 feels like it should be getting hot but that's the most comfortable temperature.

[-] Evotech@lemmy.world 10 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Honestly it makes more sense with Celsius. -40 is really cold. +40 is really hot

Again. 0 is still freezing. But in the relative scale it's not so bad

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[-] daq@lemmy.sdf.org 20 points 7 months ago

What's so special about 0 - 100? 40° of civilized units sucks, but is still perfectly survivable and is becoming more and more common in some parts of the world. That's 104° of fucked up units.

Negatives up to -30° are also common around the world and I frequently went out in shorts and t-shirt in -10° for a short time to grab mail or take out trash.

The only sort of reasonable justification for F units I've ever heard was that there's less of a change between whole degrees, but decimals are not exactly hard to figure out imnho.

[-] Donebrach@lemmy.world 17 points 7 months ago

Yall just jealous that a mile is longer than a kilometer.

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[-] brianary@startrek.website 16 points 7 months ago

Zero is freezing

10 is not

20 is pleasing

30 is hot

40 frying

50 dying

[-] JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 13 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

The scales have their places.

F is range of comfortable heat for humans. 0 oppressively cold, 100 is oppressively hot. Nearly all humans can agree on that.

C is range of comfortable heat for liquid water at 1ATM.

K is range of comfortable heat for an atom. Except atoms can handle lots of heat.

Wait is there a universal maximum temperature? There must be, right? Like, it has to be impossible for atoms and subatomic particles to move faster than the speed of light, right?

[-] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 15 points 7 months ago

Nah, Fahrenheit doesn't have a place. Humans feel temperature differently to one another. You can't make a set scale about it.

Humans have been known to live and thrive in temperatures well below 0°, as well as above 100°. And while 50° is the middle, it isn't even a comfortable temperature for humans.

0° is based on what that one Polish town measured in winter during that one year 1709, only later did they find something to represent that temperature.

The world doesn't need Fahrenheit. Humans don't need it either.

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[-] TheSealStartedIt@lemmy.world 12 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I always have to comment when I read s.th. like this. And I read it a lot when it comes to temperature scales. Celsius is completely fine scale for humans, most of the world uses it without any complaints. A human cannot tell 22° and 23° C apart. Even americans using Fahrenheit say something like "temperature is in the fifties". Fahrenheit (like lots of other scales in the US) has no real place in this world anymore except in this special american view of things...

[-] dQw4w9WgXcQ@lemm.ee 12 points 7 months ago

So 50°F is perfect room temperature, right?

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[-] PsychedSy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 7 months ago
[-] Nom@lemm.ee 10 points 7 months ago

Oh for FCK's sake...

[-] ninpnin@sopuli.xyz 11 points 7 months ago

Really cold water, really hot water 😎

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this post was submitted on 28 Mar 2024
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