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Haven't they been saying this shit for years? I'll believe it when it happens. Toyota got a late jump on EV's from what I understand, placing a bigger bet on hydrogen but that never really took off.
EDIT: I should learn to RTFA
sink cost fallacy was strong on the hydrogen tech
For passenger vehicles sure, but hydrogen is likely the war forward for long haul trucks
Maybe. Hydrogen is very expensive.
Companies aren't going to be interested in a technology that makes their fuel costs double or triple.
Hydrogen is going to become more commercially available with it being pushed into the steel industry. It is being trialed for direct injection into blast furnaces in order to reduce carbon emissions, and so far it has been going well. It will need more active supply to make an impact, amd that is already in the works.
Source: I work for a steel company who is trialing this currently, and hydrogen providers are stepping up their infrastructure as we speak
You're actually using the hydrogen instead of inefficiently turning it into electricity and driving electric vehicles with it, so I'm not sure why you thought this was relevant to bring up in a discussion about hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.
Completely correct observation. 70 % conversion of electricity to hydrogen 50 % loss for storage 70 % conversion back to electricity = 0.70.50.7 = 25 % efficiency. Absolutely abysmally low. Unless there is a lot of renewable in the electricity mix, it is even worse than ICE!
Naah your cynicism is well founded, let's see what actually gets delivered in 2026 before believing marketing claims with no proof in the article.
Okay. I'll check it out when it is available.
https://www.businessinsider.com/toyota-electric-cars-ceo-hybrids-plug-in-silent-majority-resistance-2022-12?op=1 - why buy an electric Toyota when their own CEO isn't giving them his full support?
Edit: I just found out he stepped down after this statement: https://electrek.co/2023/01/26/toyota-ceo-steps-down-amid-electric-vehicle-movement/
Toyota has literally ceded their entire hybrid advantage by doing jack shit when it comes to EVs. If they’d even created a new line of EVs while keeping their ICE legends like the Corolla and Camry for now, they’d get the best of both worlds.
Toyota’s are legendary for their reliability and they’ve earned that. By having not a single EV to offer, they’re losing a ton of business. I know I certainly would’ve bought one of theirs but had to go elsewhere.
Wonder what ludicrous range will get folks to buy an EV for their 20 miles of total driving in a day
Yeah but a car with ludicrous range used for short commutes gets less stress on the battery than a car with a smaller battery since you need to charge it less often and don’t even need to charge it to 80-100%. Which means the battery will still have very good range when the car enters the used market.
Not to mention the few times a year people typically go on holiday, during which time the range actually does get used.
The 1% trips drive sales. With a gas car I can drive 300 miles and then find fuel anywhere and get another 300 miles. Most of the time I don't make those long trips, but I do a few times per year.
This is a wild realization. Like I don’t need to go 300+ miles more then once a year or so but I WANT THE OPTION TO.
Realistically - give me a 100 mile range cheap good EV and let me rent something for the rare road trip.
Have you priced the cost of a rental car? It quickly is cheaper to just buy a car for allowed trips.
Before I bought mine, I decided if there's enough coverage by charging networks then the occasional long trip doesn't matter.
If you don't have enough range to cover your regular trips, that's a pain. Those yearly trips, though? It's okay if they take a little bit longer. Stretching your legs every couple of hours makes for a nicer trip anyway.
If you add up all the times that you charge while you're asleep instead of diverting and stopping at a filling station, you probably save time overall with an EV, even with half hour charging stops on long trips.
If you only have 100 miles range then there isn't enough chargers. Even if you have 300 you have to check where chargers are, as unlike gas stations chargers are not everywhere - yet. In 20 years I expect driving a gas car on those long trips mean check for where gas is first.
You do realise people go on holiday, right?
Yeah so do people with EVs. And people without cars in places sane enough to have public transit.
Yeah, EVs that have decent enough range for a road trip, and good luck catching a bus to a remote campsite with all your gear.
You can easily cut the range of an EV in half by towing etc, a vehicle like this will still have decent range even when towing.
How much towing and camping do you do
A few trips a year, typically. This can be a few hundred KM one way though.
And if I'm buying a brand new vehicle, I'd expect it to be able to do something my existing vehicle does.
I drive about 90 miles in a regular work day, up to 150miles to 250miles at least once a week throughout the summer.
I would maybe feel comfortable once the ranges reach double that to make sure I can get there and back if I don't quite have a full charge, so 500 miles is probably my minimum requirement just so I can do my job.
You don't need all the extra range if you have charging network coverage to bail you out, though. If you could just stop for 20 minutes and add two hundred miles whenever you needed to, then you only need the range to cover your regular travel. 350 miles should be fine.
My company probably won't be a fan of paying for me to sit around for 20 minutes waiting for a charge when I should be working
I can't imagine twenty minutes once a week being a huge deal.
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Someone was told to make a Toyota EV design for the article and we got a Prius Cybertruck.
Part of me loves the idea of changing stations popping up with something to divert people for twenty minutes.
Part of me realizes that will be forcing someone to push a button for twenty minutes while they are blasted with advertising.
I would love to care but my magic 8 ball says "80k dollar+ crossover SUV" so, meh.
It’s great news. Sadly Toyota has been a laggard and opposed electric cars until they can clear their hybrid line…
Step 1 make hybrid Step 2 sell aggressively and push back against full electric vehicle manufacturing Step 3 ??? Step 4 profit
Then go back and sell the electric vehicles and embrace your consumer fanbase on how you have pivoted to being a environmentally loving and caring corporation… aaaah so warm and fuzzy
But what about the second time you charge it?
Don't think he knows about second charge, Pip.
I wonder how many will be left buying new internal combustion engine cars in 2030?
Why does it matter if it charges from 10 to 80% in 20mins? Seems a bit arbitrary. Why not give us the time to charge to 100%? Does the last 20% take longer or something?
Yes. There's chemistry and physics reasons but primarily it's to protect the battery from overheating and prolonging the life of the battery. Same applies for your phone or laptop battery.
Thanks! To be honest I never really paid attention to charging much, just plugged it in every night and left it at that.
Which is what people usually do with EVs, funnily enough.
Exactly, charging 80-100 is much slower than 0-80.
The Hyundai Ioniq 5 and Kia EV6 both currently advertise charging from 10%-80% in 18 minutes (under ideal conditions). Charging from 10%-100% takes around 50 minutes (under ideal conditions).
So 10%-80% in 18 minutes, and 80%-100% in 32 minutes. So if you need to go far, it's also quicker to charge to 80%, go as far as you can and then charge to 80% again.
It's also important to note that charging to 100% puts much more wear and strain on the battery, so if you want your battery to keep it's capacity for many years, you should avoid charging beyond 80.
Whatever any claim is, wait until it hits the market to believe.
Toyota wasted time with hydrogen so have catching up to do.
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this post was submitted on 16 Sep 2023
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