submitted 1 year ago by YoTcA@feddit.de to c/privacyguides@lemmy.one

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At the moment I am thinking about getting a new phone in the foreseeable future. I was long time using android, but switched to iOS 5 years ago because of the longer update period. Now also some android devices offer a longer update support of about 5 years. Now I am thinking about switching back to android.

But i am wondering: is there any big difference from a privacy perspective between iOS and android? I know you can go for custom roms on android that are focused on privacy which i also used in the past, but i am not planning on doing this in the future. So it would come down to stock android vs stock iOS. Any advice there or is all lost anyway?

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[-] priapus@sh.itjust.works 23 points 1 year ago

If you're not willing to flash a rom, then it comes down to trusting Apple or Google more. Although, android also has the benefit of a much larger selection of open source utilities that you can easily install from F-Droid. This is enough for me to prefer even stock Android over iOS, because 99% of the apps on my android phone are open source and I feel I can trust them fully.

[-] dingleberry@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Custom ROM scene is too sketchy. People install random shit on their phones, eyes wide shut. I'd suggest sticking with Pixel phones. You can use Google's flash station to install aosp roms if you so desire, it's safer than whatever is out there on XDA forums.

[-] priapus@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago

There are plenty of trustworthy ROMs out there. Idk who is installing them from XDA forums, but i'm certainly not.

[-] tux0r@feddit.de 18 points 1 year ago

Android is primarily sponsored and advertised by Google, which is basically the world's largest advertising company that also happens to have an IT department.

iOS is exclusively sponsored and advertised by Apple, which is basically a large IT company that makes most of its money with rather expensive hardware.

One of those is a wiser choice if you care about your privacy.

[-] ArbiterXero@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago

I own an iPhone because Google is evil but….

Make no mistake, Apple has developed their own advertising id and they’re starting to use it to track you just like Google.

In theory it’s more private, but in practice it’s hard to say for sure.

[-] Yendor@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 year ago

A few massive differences:

You opt-in to targeted tracking with Apple. It’s impossible to opt-out with Google. Apple also enforces per-app opt-in for tracking.
Apple use your data, but they don’t sell it on
Apple features protect you from 3rd party tracking at a software level (Private Relay) and hardware level (MAC randomisation)

[-] ArbiterXero@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Oh listen I TOTALLY believe that it’s better, that’s why I have the iPhone.

HOWEVER, most of these points are what Apple tells me, not verified by a third party research team, so there’s a grain of salt to go along with the statements

[-] YoTcA@feddit.de 3 points 1 year ago

So hoping apple is not selling my data, because they make enough money with their hardware sales?

This is at least a big difference in the business models of the two companies. Thanks for the input!

What I struggle a little to understand: How does the add business of google affect my privacy? Is not google also collecting the data for internal use only? If they would sell the data, everybody could also target adds like they do. As I understand it they sell add placement and allow the buyer to target a specific group of people, but without selling the data they used to create the profiles. Or am I mixing something up?

[-] tux0r@feddit.de 4 points 1 year ago

So hoping apple is not selling my data, because they make enough money with their hardware sales?

More or less, yes. Because they don't need the money.

How does the add business of google affect my privacy?

Google's whole business model is selling your private data. Or which product did you buy from them?

[-] huginn@feddit.it 14 points 1 year ago

Because they don't need the money.

Until investors start throwing a fit when number doesn't go up every year for all eternity.

Make no mistake: your data is just as sellable by Apple as anyone else.

[-] loudWaterEnjoyer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 year ago

You understood capitalism

[-] Lemjukes@lemm.ee 15 points 1 year ago

People really like to crap on apple for reasons justified and not. But when it comes to privacy there's a pretty clear difference in the track records for Google and Apple. Here are some articles that might be worth a read in helping you decide. Really what it boils down to is what matters most to you. Apple may have the better privacy record, but it also locks you into a garden with very high walls. Google/android architecture may be a lot more versatile and provide more hardware options and customizability, but they will harvest and sell every scrap of data they can get their hands on.

https://9to5mac.com/2022/08/25/apple-collect-less-data-than-other-companies/

https://www.tomsguide.com/face-off/iphone-vs-android

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/ios-vs-android/

https://www.techradar.com/news/google-photos-vs-icloud

[-] Vinegar@kbin.social 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Check out the Fairphone 4/5 running /e/OS. To get a "stock" phone that comes degoogled and ready to use, no tinkering required, you can buy a phone directly from the makers of /e/OS/: Murena

[-] Lemongrab@lemmy.one 5 points 1 year ago

/e/os is often multiple versions behind for their forked apps, including vulnerabilities. Not a good choice from what ive seen. A dev for divestos cataloged the problems iirc

[-] YoTcA@feddit.de 2 points 1 year ago

The announcement of the Fairphone 5 was the starting point of my doubts to just get the next iPhone :D. First android phone with a really long promised update duration that I am aware of. Thanks for the tip with eos, will check it out.

[-] krimsonbun 1 points 1 year ago

Fairphone 3 with /e/ is still a viable option if you don't have the budget for the 4/5!

[-] beppi@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 year ago

There's only one phone that runs GrapheneOS so that's the one I get. If you're looking at stock phones, apple is the best for privacy and security, but if you really care about those two things you're probably not just looking at them stock

[-] JurassicPork@lemmy.one 9 points 1 year ago

I second graphene, I grabbed a pixel 6 about a year ago. Flashed graphene after first boot, and have never looked back! Fast, private, light, bleeding edge security updates, storage scopes, etc etc.

[-] YoTcA@feddit.de 7 points 1 year ago

Sounds nice. Had any problems with banking apps and authenticatiors? If I remember correctly they sometimes made problems with custom ROMs (at least 5-8 years ago when I last used them 😅)

Feels kind of ironic that you need to get a pixel phone, made by google, to get rid of google.

[-] beppi@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago

With Australian banks there doesn't seem to be any problems, if you don't install gplay, you won't get notifications though. However I think there were some issues with other countries' banks, but there's a list somewhere on the GrapheneOS forums/GitHub for all tested banks.

It really does, but unfortunately they simply have the most secure hardware of android phones. At least you're just paying for the hardware, but don't have to continue paying with your privacy (or pack of) if you get Graphene

[-] JurassicPork@lemmy.one 1 points 1 year ago

No issues with banking apps!!! Not for me at least, bootloader gets relocked when installing graphene, I used to maintain a ROM for the s4 back in the day, and knows it was a pain with banking apps due to safetynet I think it was. And ya super ironic its a google phone 😂

[-] TheMusicalFruit@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

While Apple isn’t perfect, history has shown that they take privacy more seriously than Google.

[-] LilDestructiveSheep@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Some phones can have GrapheneOS.

I made the switch to Pixel last year and I can tell you that the ads on it are far more precise than on iPhone.

FDroid and Open Source are good.

[-] Asudox@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

If you are a normal user that just wants a bit privacy and no excessive amount of spyware, I guess iOS is the way. Though if you do care about privacy, you can get yourself a pixel phone and flash GrapheneOS, which is far superior to stock android or iOS. It's FOSS, it has tools that will help with your privacy, etc. Plus android has a far bigger app market than iOS. You most likely will find everything you need in FDroid.

[-] Gush@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

Tho the pixel phone must have the bootloader unlocked, right?

[-] MXX53@programming.dev 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You have to be able to unlock it (no post paid ATT/Verizon/TMO contracted phones), but you can lock the bootloader again after flashing grapheneOS

[-] furrowsofar@beehaw.org 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The big issues with iPhone I have are overly complicated, overly expensive, walled garden, and so locked down you cannot remote control, and cannot install your own software from your own sources. Researchers cannot even easily reaseach security issues and they do have them.

So with all that, iPhone is a no for me. On the other hand probably more secure. It is also not from an Ad company which is good.

[-] cloudless@feddit.uk 5 points 1 year ago

Whether Apple or Google collects/abuse more data, I'm not sure.

But I prefer iOS's design for app security. iOS apps are more restricted than Android apps in general, and when iOS apps require permissions they prompt clearly.

Most Android apps seem to have excessive permissions by default. The Play Store is a mess and the "Data safety" section is worse than useless, with scammers self-declaring the apps as "no data collected".

[-] nutbutter@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You've used android. You've used iOS. Time to get a Linux phone. I'd suggest PinePhone.

Edit - Take a look at this post Open Source sub-lemmy.

[-] iturnedintoanewt@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago

Good for testing/shits and giggles. Not for daily driver

[-] eddanja@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Android's PIN/password screen is shit. When you press a number, it shows the button you pressed. As you type 6279 or whatever, you see the 6 button flash as you press it.

Anyone looking over your shoulder can basically see your PIN. I miss Cyanogenmod. They altered the lockscreen so the numbers didn't do anything you type in 6279 and it looks like you're just touching your screen.

[-] biscuits@lemmy.sdfeu.org 6 points 1 year ago

Yeah, not sure if it's my ROM (DivestOS) or just Android 13, but in Settings > Screen lock I have Enhanced PIN privacy toggle that does just what you've described.

[-] shasta@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

I have stock android 13 and I don't see that option. However, if you use Pattern instead of PIN, there is an option to not show the pattern you draw. This is closest to what OP was looking for. If course, I usually use my fingerprint to login anyway.

[-] mintyfrog@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago

Graphene OS fixes this

[-] ExLisper@linux.community 1 points 1 year ago

Can someone please implement the lock screen from BlackBerry that was using a picture and a grid of numbers? It was:

fast - one gesture
secure - I could have you watch up close what I'm doing and you still wouldn't know the unlock code

Is it patented? Why android doesn't have it?

[-] abominable_panda@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Funny, on my subscription list the post right below yours addresses exactly that...but its an ad of sorts

https://monero.town/post/444517

this post was submitted on 31 Aug 2023

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