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submitted 5 months ago by Camzing@lemmy.world to c/asklemmy@lemmy.world
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[-] sorghum@sh.itjust.works 9 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Because no one should have the rights to someone else's labor. If it's a completely voluntary system, that's a different story

[-] PunnyName@lemmy.world 10 points 5 months ago

So, society as we know it shouldn't even remotely exist. None of it.

[-] Captainvaqina@sh.itjust.works 7 points 5 months ago

Because no one should have the rights to someone else's labor. <

They should just lord over the true value whilst paying peanuts to the workers? Cause that's where we're at already.

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[-] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 9 points 5 months ago

Libertarians usually define liberty narrowly as "freedom from government".
Freedom does not mean the ability to do as you please, but rather the ability to not be told what not to do, or to be made to do something you do not wish to do.
A libertarian usually does not object to wage slavery, and would disagree with the concept of wage slavery entirely, on the grounds that you were not forced to work a job you dislike, since you could always choose to starve instead.

What you're looking for is one of the schools of anarchism.
Although usually painted as "anti-government, anti-society", it actually derives from being against hierarchy, and is characterized generally (there are many schools) as being opposed to involuntary power hierarchies.
Sometimes government is the best way to reduce the total amount of coercion in the system, since forcing a lot of people to pay a little can free many, many people from being forced to do stuff they loath to survive.

Libertarians aren't pro-liberty they're anti-government, and anarchists aren't pro-chaos they're anti-coercian. They're both entire political schools of thought, so I've obviously not encapsulated them entirely in two paragraphs.

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[-] Jayb151@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago

Actually, education and health are the 2 things I think the government should take care of in a serious way. That said, I still Believe people should be able to pay for alternative education or health care if they wish, I just think I should never see a bill for either of those two ever. Especially for children. Wtf are we doing if we as a society cannot afford for children to be healthy or educated?

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[-] hungryphrog 8 points 5 months ago

Why the hell do you think that libertarians don't believe in universal healthcare?

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[-] SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world 7 points 5 months ago

As an American man I only have a 40% chance of developing cancer in my lifetime, but with universal healthcare there’s 100% chance I will have to pay for it.

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[-] John_McMurray@lemmy.world 7 points 5 months ago

Honestly it's just an ethical stance against forcing one to pay for another, emphasis on force.

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[-] StaySquared@lemmy.world 7 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Liberty

Universal Healthcare @ gun point.

Can't have both.

[-] recapitated@lemmy.world 9 points 5 months ago

I think before folks downvote this for being a flawed opinion on its face, they should remember what the actual question was, and this statement wasn't lodged in a vacuum.

Now if actual libertarians are downvoting this I'd love to hear their corrections.

[-] tiefling 7 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Libertarians are Republicans that smoke weed. They are identical at their core.

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[-] Churbleyimyam@lemm.ee 7 points 5 months ago

Wanna be free to stay unwell.

[-] recapitated@lemmy.world 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

On a political spectrum, the term libertarian should relate to anti-authoritarian. So, I can see how the case can be made against socialized healthcare for them. It's not really about true freedom or liberty. And in the US anyway, it's largely just facade co-opted by the ~~fascist~~ [authoritarian and wealthy] right wing, ironically.

The word "Libertarian" in US has less relation to the dictionary definition than "Republican" and "Democrat". These are names of parties over here, even if they have a namesake of governmental mechanisms.

Examples:

Ron Johnson said in a single breath that he was a libertarian and opposed the legalization of marijuana.

Find the average "libertarian" policy position on border policies.

US politics is unfortunately entrenched in tribalism rather than searching for the right tool to match a job or solve a problem and maximize outcomes, the libertarians over here are no exception.

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[-] rusticus@lemm.ee 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

When you combine "Libertarian" with the greed that is typical in the ultra wealthy, their core value typically only includes liberty for themselves and no empathy for others. You can use any party label you want but without empathy, members of every party are nothing more than selfish pieces of shit. Just to be clear, I am not a "they're all the same" idiot, as Republicans clearly think empathy is a four letter word. But there are sociopaths without empathy everywhere in society, especially in the US.

As far as universal healthcare is concerned, we can't even agree as a society to provide clean water to our population by removing leaded pipes. Why would we expect something as reasonable as universal healthcare?

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this post was submitted on 19 May 2024
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