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[image] People would probably hate cars a lot less if they were limited in size and speed to a golf cart (lemmy.world)
submitted 2 years ago by Fried_out_Kombi@lemmy.world to c/fuckcars@lemmy.world
77 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Pros of golf carts and neighborhood electric vehicles (NEVs) replacing all private cars within a city:

  • Only goes as fast as a bicycle, so isn't a viable suburban commuter vehicle, meaning you'll probably only take it to the nearest transit station
  • Only goes as fast as a bicycle, so isn't likely to kill people
  • Excellent visibility, so less likely to run over children
  • Much smaller and lighter, so building parking garages for park-and-rides would be a lot cheaper and less objectionable than with our current style of cars
  • Electric
  • Smaller batteries than jumbo EVs
  • Compatible with dense, transit-oriented city development
  • Could be installed with mandatory speed limiters

Cons:

  • Less profit for GM and ExxonMobil
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[-] Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com 49 points 2 years ago

The reason cars became so popular in rural areas is that they're the thing that allows people who live there to be connected with their neighbors. They divide densely populated areas and connect low population areas. The relationship cars have to people's lives is incredibly complex and putting forth solutions like this will alienate people from joining the movement. Advocating for walkable cities makes sense because rural communities aren't going to be atomized by regulations like that, and thus it becomes easier to implement.

[-] Xcf456@lemmy.nz 28 points 2 years ago

This post is talking exclusively about cities, I'm not sure why this argument about rural areas comes up so often when it's not relevant.

[-] FarceOfWill@infosec.pub 11 points 2 years ago

Rural people know their way of life is utterly unsustainable and feel very defensive because of that

[-] Everythingispenguins@lemmy.world 12 points 2 years ago

Really? That is very naive of you. I don't see a lot of farming In city centers. Rural life is just as sustainable as city life. I have always driven much less when I have lived in the country. Being able to live where you work makes a commute unnecessary. So just the once a month drive to town for supplies.

Both cities and the country have its place. One is not better, the worst way to get people to listen to you is to insult one of the basic qualities of who they are.

[-] FarceOfWill@infosec.pub 9 points 2 years ago

One of the worst ways, absolutely worst ways, to get people to listen to you is for "rural can't survive without cars" people to wade into a post about cities and keep going on about them, as if they're the only ones that matter and city dwellers shouldn't solve their city problems without the permission of someone far away who doesn't live there.

It's just not about you. Please try and have the humility to not act like it is.

[-] Everythingispenguins@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago

Weird enough I never said anything of that, but thank you for the reminder on the importance of reading comprehension.

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[-] XiELEd@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Nah, I'd say that most city living is unsustainable, just without it being visible to most people. The huge amounts of people in a city benefit from unsustainable commercialised farming practices, for example. I mean in rural areas (the ones that aren't corpo-owned at least) you're likely to have people growing locally-adapted seeds that don't require lots of watering/fertilizer/pesticide. There's more cooperation, too.

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[-] LesserAbe@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

There are cities like New York, and then there are cities like Reading, PA. The places where you could swap cars with golf cart style cars are pretty limited. It would have a huge and beneficial impact in NYC, and it would be great if smaller cities also had better public transit. But that's why people bring up objections to this sort of idea.

[-] Xcf456@lemmy.nz 6 points 2 years ago

Yes but that's a different argument again. The post said cities and the response was about rural areas

[-] TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago

allows people who live there to be connected with their neighbors

Why do you say that? Losing connection with community is the exact reason the Amish ban cars. You rested your whole argument on this, too, so you'll need to convince me a little harder that up is down.

[-] Ross_audio@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago

You've just proven their point. Isolationists ban cars.

The Amish isolate themselves from others for religious reasons. Most people don't want to do that.

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[-] Skua@kbin.social 24 points 2 years ago

There is a small city in Georgia, USA that does this. Tom Scott video on it

[-] cmbabul@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago

I knew a guy that grew up there, he wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and was kinda shocked that all the other folks we worked with (most of us from other parts of Georgia than Peachtree City) didn't have golf carts growing up. Actually seems like a cool idea, although it only works if you can afford a golfcart

[-] Cort@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago

Tbf, the current system only works if you can afford a car which is typically more expensive than a golf cart

[-] cmbabul@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

True, but all these people also have both, often multiple of both, it's a pretty well off part of metro Atlanta

[-] HexesofVexes@lemmy.world 14 points 2 years ago

Never change fuckcars, never change.

Every post on this forum is an S-tier masterclass in trolling, and I love it.

[-] PlasterAnalyst@kbin.social 9 points 2 years ago

My state allows towns to decide if they'll allow golf carts to drive on roads. It's great for small towns with lots of older people.

[-] Delphiantares@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago

Just based on the picture, do you expect this to be used anywhere that gets a decent chance of snow in the winter?

[-] fuckwit_mcbumcrumble@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago

People still walk in those places too.

Give it some vinyl doors and you'll be fine in winter time.

[-] Katana314@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago

This used to be my point against winter bicycles, but when I think about it, these kinds of individual transports shouldn’t be used for long distances anyway, and you’ll still need good winter clothing for walking to the destination after parking anyway.

I just decided to improve my winter gear, and that means I can walk, or bike, or use one of these electric golf carts, or whatever I choose.

[-] Fried_out_Kombi@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

Exactly. I'm in Canada, and I often ride my electric scooter to work in the winter, and many ride bikes in the winter here, too. The windshield on a glorified golf cart plus proper winter clothing is all you really need, although maybe detachable side flaps to keep out the wind might help, too.

And I wear full coat in a car anyways for the exact reason you mention: I still need to walk between car and final destination.

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[-] spacecowboy@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 years ago

Just get the AWD trim with a winter tire package. Keep chains handy too

[-] lemann@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 2 years ago

Sounds similar to a mobility scooter, but more practical for carrying much heavier loads.

I'd prefer a cargobike personally, but most of the ones I like are too heavy to move when you're not riding it, let alone with a 1/4 ton load. Those also can't fit into most apartments, you've got to leave them outside or in bicycle storage...

This kart/NEV thing kind of seems like a good compromise, with quadricycle vans possibly being an alternative option if you aren't carrying people

[-] Fried_out_Kombi@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

I agree that a bike is generally preferable, but an NEV seems a good compromise for people who need to move multiple people at once or more cargo than a cargo bike can carry. Max one of these per household + bike for everyone + walkable, transit-oriented development seems like a suitable compromise that would be a significant improvement over the status quo.

[-] KyuubiNoKitsune 5 points 2 years ago

My mom lives 100km away from the city, there are no busses or trains going there. How long should I need to travel to go visit my mom for the day? In a car it takes between an hour and an hour 20. At an average bicycle speed (for a fit cyclist) it would take me 4-5 hours to get to her, I can then have a cup of coffee, turn around and start heading back so I don't get home too late.

[-] FarceOfWill@infosec.pub 6 points 2 years ago

You use a train like the rest of the civilised world. Should take 30 minutes or something like , you can spend the time you saved helping end car dependency

[-] nxdefiant@startrek.website 5 points 2 years ago

there are no trains going there though.

[-] KyuubiNoKitsune 3 points 2 years ago

You need to read and not skim read..

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[-] UraniumBlazer@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago

This is a problem with the transit authority then, no? Advocate for better transit options where u r then.

[-] KyuubiNoKitsune 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Listen, for the last 16 years we have had non stop scheduled blackouts. Going from maybe 2-4 hours a day to now up to 12 hours a day. They can't even buy the right trains for the tracks we have.. If you'd like to change it, good luck to you, the politicians don't care, they're just there to enrich themselves.

Not everyone lives in a perfect utopia.

[-] UraniumBlazer@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago

Not everyone lives in a perfect utopia.

No one does

I'm sorry to hear that u'r living in such a place. This community is attempting to bring awareness to such places (which are the majority of human settlements unfortunately). We can change this, no? We can (and I would say we ought to) make the world a better place for ourselves and our kids, no?

[-] KyuubiNoKitsune 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

My mom lives there, I left 3 years ago because the economy is in shambles and crime is out of control. Can I change it? No. Can any of the people I know change it? No. It's like farting against thunder in that place, it's been a downward trend since the end of Mandela's presidency and the majority want the ANC to be in control, and the ANC keeps everyone uneducated enough to be able to use simple propaganda, gifts and lies to keep getting voted in term after term. I watched my country fall apart and be robbed blind by the corrupt government, I saw as more and more of her people lived in squalor and I was helpless to do anything about it. It hurt me enough that I had to leave, there was nothing I could do. Now I don't have a car.

The point of my original comment is that cars are great for travelling long distances to places where there is no public transport, limiting them to bicycle speed negates all of that and will hinder people's lives to an insane degree. Like for instance I would then probably need to take vacation to visit my mom for it to be worth the 10 hours of travel. And that's not even going into the fact that you have to travel on one of the most dangerous highways in SA, if you break down or stop, it is guaranteed that you will be robbed or killed, if there's heavy traffic, it's guaranteed that some will be robbed in the traffic jam. Going down that highway at night at 25km/h is asking to get murdered or raped.

While a carless utopia and "just change it" are great ideas and all. Reality is far from that easy.

[-] UraniumBlazer@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago

I'm so sorry for what you had to go through. I live in a shithole like this as well (thankfully m moving soon). I'm sorry you had to leave the place you grew up in. I'm sorry that you have to see your country fall apart right in front of your eyes. Trust me, I know the feeling. I know how much it hurts.

While a carless utopia and “just change it” are great ideas and all. Reality is far from that easy.

Absolutely correct! Far from easy, but not impossible. The people in this community (like not fuckcars specifically, but progressives in general) are trying to do this.

Also, they are not telling you specifically to give up your car. In fact, many of them use cars themselves. They are attempting to influence policy such that we can have transit centric infrastructure. Noone here would tell you to bike 10 hours to visit your mum.

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[-] papabobolious@feddit.nu 5 points 2 years ago

This looks incredibly American. As far as small vehicles go this is still roughly the size of a small car, granted it probably weighs less(d safer), but storing it still requires a fair amount of dedicated parking. An E-bike or even better a pushbike seems like a more reasonable choice then.

[-] XiELEd@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

tfw Americans realize that smaller cars were better all along

[-] perviouslyiner@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago

The Miniature Microcars of Amsterdam (NJB on YouTube)

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this post was submitted on 22 Feb 2024
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