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hmmmm (mander.xyz)
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[-] cloudless@feddit.uk 6 points 2 years ago

I know many people despise generative AI, but what do you think of this result from Copilot? I am bad at maths so I wonder if you experts can tell.

In your scenario, you have two sets: the integers on the top track and the real numbers on the bottom track. The cardinality of the integers is equal to the cardinality of the real numbers, which is called the continuum hypothesis. Therefore, it seems intuitively more ethical to pull the lever and divert the trolley to the bottom track, where you kill fewer people in any finite time.

[-] callyral@pawb.social 5 points 2 years ago

it seems intuitively more ethical to pull the lever and divert the trolley to the bottom track,

not an expert but the integer one is at the top i think

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[-] CptEnder@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago

Jump in front of the trolley, someone else's problem

[-] OpenStars@startrek.website 6 points 2 years ago

This comment section is politics in action! :-P

[-] fossilesque@mander.xyz 4 points 2 years ago
[-] OpenStars@startrek.website 5 points 2 years ago

If you want to be a true masochist, you could re-run the experiment on Reddit - hurk 🤮.

The beauty of Lemmy is that here we can at least talk about such neat things:-).

[-] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 5 points 2 years ago

If we have infinite people, it wouldn't be such a bad thing to lose a couple.

[-] s_s@lemmy.one 5 points 2 years ago

Infinity people always die. Even if you don't make a decision.

[-] DaGeek247@fedia.io 5 points 2 years ago

I get that the answer is supposed to be "it doesn't matter" but if you take time into account, it actually fucking does, and also makes it hugely obvious what the actual answer is.

[-] Krauerking@lemy.lol 5 points 2 years ago

Pull the lever. Save as many lives as you can and hope that someone that now wasn't killed as fast can help come up with a solution for the runaway trolley.

[-] Quetzalcutlass@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

If the tracks are scaled to the same unit (presumably one where one human width equals an infinitely small number), everyone in the top track would die of exposure before the trolley even reaches its first victim due to there being infinite distance between integer milestones, whereas everyone in the bottom track would be killed instantly due to any distance traveled having an infinite number of infinitesimals*. So I choose the bottom track to be merciful.

If the tracks don't share the same scale then we don't have enough information to make a judgment.

* Even though we already established the one human width rule. Could someone check my logic here? Infinities break my brain.

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[-] dbug13@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 years ago

Infinity cannot be divided, if it can then it becomes multiple finite objects. Therefore there cannot be multiple Infinities. If infinity has a size, then it is a finite object. If infinity has a boundary of any kind, then it is a finite object.

[-] Jabbermuggel@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 2 years ago

I'm not entirely sure I understand your comment, but the fact that there are more real numbers than natural numbers can be readily shown using something called cantor's diagonal argument. It goes something like this:

Suppose the set of real numbers and natural numbers had the same size. Then we could write down an infinite list, where each line represents some real number written in it's decimal representation. So something like

1: 3.14159265
2: 1.41421356
3: 0.24242424
...

This list goes on forever. We will now construct a new real number r as follows: The first number after the decimal point of r shall be different from the first number after the decimal point of the first number in our list, the second shall be different from the second decimal of the second number on the list, and so on (the name diagonal argument comes from this, we consider the entries on the diagonal from top left towards the bottom right).

The key point now is that this constructed real number is different from every single number on the list: After all, we have made sure it differs from each number on the list in at least one place. Therefore, it is impossible to write down the real numbers in such a way that each real number gets its own natural number: There are simply too few natural numbers for this. In particular, there are at least two different "sizes" of infinities.

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[-] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

I am sure even countably infinite people would violate some law of thermodynamics.

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[-] SpicyAnt@mander.xyz 4 points 2 years ago

I pull the lever and invoke Zeno's paradox to ensure the trolley's position remains < 1 for eternity.

[-] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

EDIT: I rolled a critical fail in reading comprehension and I thought the other track was N per integer instead of 1 per real number in the previous version of this comment.

The people in the real number track are already dead by the time the trolley arrives due to the forces involved in cramming them so tightly together. I.e. they are basically just a gore pile the moment after the people are somehow arranged like that.

I pick the real number track so that no one new has to die.

[-] lordmauve@programming.dev 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Some infinities are bigger than others but those are both the same sized infinity, ℵ₀. Same if you multi-track drift.

Edit: I didn't read it closely enough, it says "one person for every real number". Which is indeed a larger infinity. However I don't think you can diagram that, the diagram is showing a countable infinity of people on the lower track.

Killing one person for each real number, the train will be killing an uncountably infinite quantity of people in any given finite time slice.

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[-] fossilesque@mander.xyz 4 points 2 years ago

i'd ask for a second train.

[-] RobertOwnageJunior@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

I quickly carry the people to the other side so they all can get run over.

[-] humbletightband@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 years ago

I'll do nothing. Either way those people will eventually die - because of the train or because of starvation and dehydration. I would prefer the train.

[-] gandalf_der_12te@feddit.de 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

build new tracks to make the trolley run on (possibly in circles).

[-] Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago

Pull it -1/12 of the way, causing the infinity to converge to a real number.

[-] repungnant_canary@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I actually would like to choose the track where the number of people increases by one (so 1, 2, 3, 4...) and then the train will kill -1/12 people

PS Yes, I know this sum result is problematic, it's only a joke

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this post was submitted on 27 Feb 2024
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