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submitted 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) by Darth_Vader__@lemmy.world to c/asklemmy@lemmy.world

Obviously I can understand why mysoginists are hated upon, As their belief is all women are trash or men are superior etc. But why are incels also generally hated upon? They are lacking in a way that makes them unable to gey in a relationship, but that shouldn't necessarily mean they are mysoginists, right?

What am I missing here? I haven't ever had a relationship with a woman, but I don't hate all women either. I just consider myself unlucky. Does that make me an incel?

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[-] 520@kbin.social 7 points 9 months ago

TL;DR:

  1. Misogyny. Inherently hating half the world's population is not going to win you many friends.

  2. prone to violence. Because male-on-female DV isn't bad enough, why not add literal terrorism to the mix?

[-] FiskFisk33@startrek.website 7 points 9 months ago

Explain to me how the basic concept is not misogynistic in itself.

As I've understood it, the idea of the incel movement is that these people deserve to get fucked, by whomever they choose, that they don't have any obligation to change anything about themselves, they are just being treated unfairly.

It ignores the other person completely, they are just some price they deserve, not a living breathing person with their own feelings and preferences.

I realize people have trouble with social interaction, but an interaction with another person is inherently social, no two ways about it.

[-] wrath_of_grunge@kbin.social 7 points 9 months ago

they're just insufferable. the problem isn't the situation. it's the mindset they develop.

it basically becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy for them. they can't get a woman, they develop unhealthy views, related to self-entitlement, and they become walking red flags to normal, adjusted individuals, which drives their isolation, and then feeds into what they think always happens.

a defeatist attitude never gets anything done. being a person is, in part, about self improvement.

if your skills won't get you hired for a job, you need to improve your skills. dating and having successful relationships is not much different. the problem with many incels is that they improve all these other aspects of their life (job, property, car), and then can't understand why the other sex doesn't flock to them. they fail to realize that hitting all these various metrics is just a part of the equation, but not the whole she-bang.

if you haven't had a relationship, maybe you haven't had the right circumstances, or met the right person. the trick is to understand not to necessarily take that personally, as recursive as that sounds.

[-] Lemvi@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 9 months ago

I feel like the term "Incel" has developed somewhat. I guess in the beginning it was used by men struggeling to get into a relationship to refer to themselves. It was used to find others with the same issues, and form a kind of self help group that could provide comfort and maybe even inprovement. If thats what incels were today, they wouldn't be hated like that. Perhaps they would be belittled or made fun of.

But that's not what we understand incels to be today. Incels now seem to be extremely bitter, delusional, pathetic individuals. They don't recognize the issue lies with themselves, instead it's supposedly the fault of the women, who won't accept their place in society. In the mind of an incel, they deserve to have sex, and that means that it should be a woman's duty to please them.

So no, you are probably not an incel, even if perhaps you would have been under the original definition.

[-] MrBobDobalina@lemmy.ml 5 points 9 months ago

Exactly this. I think I remember an interview with the woman (yep) who originally coined the term for herself and her online support group of sorts for people who wanted to better themselves. She has had to watch it morph into what it is now.

Link: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45284455

[-] Pons_Aelius@kbin.social 6 points 9 months ago

But why are incels also generally hated upon?

Your previous sentence answered your question.

Their belief is all women are trash or men are superior.

There is nothing wrong with being an adult and not being sexually active.

Making your sexual situation become your whole personality and using the obvious regret they feel about it as a springboard to justify hate against others is not.

[-] xigoi@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 9 months ago

Because people mostly know about the vocal minority that posts a lot of hateful content, presumably mostly for attention. This is exacerbated by the just world fallacy — people want to believe that if someone is unhappy, they must have done something bad to deserve it.

[-] PonyOfWar@pawb.social 4 points 9 months ago

Because people who give themselves that label identify themselves with a community that openly spreads hatred and bigotry.

Does that make me an incel?

No, not unless you approve of that community and want to be part of it.

[-] shinigamiookamiryuu@lemm.ee 4 points 9 months ago

Stereotypes. That's basically it. The way they go about their dilemmas has left an impression, which isn't unique in the slightest among subgroups of humanity. Especially as an asexual woman, I've had bad encounters with some, and although I recognize not all of them are guilty of anything, the ones that do make things difficult cloud the identity.

That itself would be enough of an issue, but then along comes Jordan Peterson. He is the choice idol of the majority of incels, and he uses this power and esteem imposingly. Without saying it explicitly, he encourages the idea that physical fun time is a human right to receive and a duty for all peoples to give. They cite him frequently and such ideas have shimmied us into a world where asexuality is somehow uncanon in reality, when it shouldn't be hard simply to have a bit of voluntaryism.

[-] RedditWanderer@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)
[-] Binthinkin@kbin.social 3 points 9 months ago

Denying oneself sex is an unhealthy practice for mind and body. They are sick people and need help. That’s it. To have a conversation beyond help is just ignoring the obvious and denying treatment. The misogyny is just poor mental health and lack of understanding about women and generally themselves. They’re just mentally and physically ill and refuse help.

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this post was submitted on 18 Feb 2024
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