198

So I'm no expert, but I have been a hobbyist C and Rust dev for a while now, and I've installed tons of programs from GitHub and whatnot that required manual compilation or other hoops to jump through, but I am constantly befuddled installing python apps. They seem to always need a very specific (often outdated) version of python, require a bunch of venv nonsense, googling gives tons of outdated info that no longer works, and generally seem incredibly not portable. As someone who doesn't work in python, it seems more obtuse than any other language's ecosystem. Why is it like this?

(page 2) 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] ravhall@discuss.online 3 points 1 year ago

This isn’t the answer you want, but Go(lang) is super easy to learn and has a ton of speed on python. Yes, it’s more difficult, but once you understand it, it’s got a lot going for it.

[-] lime@feddit.nu 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

it's also not at all relevant. go is great, but this is about python.

[-] ravhall@discuss.online 2 points 1 year ago

I’m sorry I offended you.

load more comments (11 replies)
[-] DarkThoughts@fedia.io 3 points 1 year ago

Tried to install Automatic1111 for Stable Diffusion in an Arch distrobox, and despite editing the .sh file to point to the older tarballed Python version as advised on Github, it still tells me it uses the most up to date one that's installed system wide and thus can't install pytorch. And that's pretty much where my personal knowledge ends, and apparently that of those (i.e. that one person) on Github. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Always funny when people urge you to ask for help but no one ends up actually helping.

[-] zaphodb2002@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago

Lol this is exactly why I made this post. I ended up using ComfyUI instead which has other, different python issues, but I got it working (kinda, no GPU but it's fine it works)

[-] DarkThoughts@fedia.io 1 points 1 year ago

I definitely want gpu support. Although I struggle with that somewhat on Koboldcpp as well where I can't use ROCm, only Vulkan. Unsure where the difference is performance wise.

I'd like to try the other UIs too, but the problem is that Automatic1111 is where the majority of additional plugins can be found.

[-] it_depends_man@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

The difficulty with python tooling is that you have to learn which tools you can and should completely ignore.

Unless you are a 100x engineer managing 500 projects with conflicting versions, build systems, docker, websites, and AAAH...

  • you don't really need venvs
  • you should not use more than on package manager (I recommend pip) and you should cling to it with all your might and never switch. Mixing e.g. conda, on linux system installers like apt, is the problem. Just using one is fine.
  • You don't "need" need any other tools. They are bonuses that you should use and learn how to use, exactly when you need them and not before. (type hinting checker, linting, testing, etc..)

Why is it like this?

Isolation for reliability, because it costs the businesses real $$$ when stuff goes down.

venvs exists to prevent the case that "project 1" and "project 2" use the same library "foobar". Except, "project 1" is old, the maintainer is held up and can't update as fast and "project 2" is a cutting edge start up that always uses the newest tech.

When python imports a library it would use "the libary" that is installed. If project 2 uses foobar version 15.9 which changed functionality, and project 1 uses foobar uses version 1.0, you get a bug, always, in either project 1 or project 2. Venvs solve this by providing project specific sets of libraries and interpreters.

In practice for many if not most users, this is meaningless, because if you're making e.g. a plot with matplotlib, that won't change. But people have "best practices" so they just do stuff even if they don't need it.

It is a tradeoff between being fine with breakage and fixing it when it occurs and not being fine with breakage. The two approaches won't mix.

very specific (often outdated) version of python,

They are giving you the version that they know worked. Often you can just remove the specific version pinning and it will work fine, because again, it doesn't actually change that much. But still, the project that's online was the working state.

load more comments (4 replies)
[-] Die4Ever@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago

I'm not sure this can be really fixed with Python 3, maybe we just have to hope for Python 4

[-] flying_sheep@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

It's fixed, and the python version had nothing to do with it. Just use hatch

load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments
view more: ‹ prev next ›
this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2024
198 points (100.0% liked)

Programming

23729 readers
270 users here now

Welcome to the main community in programming.dev! Feel free to post anything relating to programming here!

Cross posting is strongly encouraged in the instance. If you feel your post or another person's post makes sense in another community cross post into it.

Hope you enjoy the instance!

Rules

Rules

  • Follow the programming.dev instance rules
  • Keep content related to programming in some way
  • If you're posting long videos try to add in some form of tldr for those who don't want to watch videos

Wormhole

Follow the wormhole through a path of communities !webdev@programming.dev



founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS