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Op Sec was fantastic from Ukraine. With that and Russia ignoring what info on troop buildup they did have, they managed operational surprise.
The Russians themselves were also detected to be building up troop numbers in Southern Kursk just opposite of Sumy. The Ukrainians cleverly used that to send troops to Sumy, which the Russians must have thought that it was a countermove to defend against them, to mask their true intentions of going on the offensive. The Ukrainians merely turned the operational table on to the Russians.
That being said, with hindsight, the earlier attacks on Belgorod by anti-Putin Russians could have been probing attacks to identify weakpoints in the Russian border. Or perhaps to distract the Russians and redirect troops away from other areas. Or both. All of these are clever and creative plans by Kyiv; and they played their hands well.
Considering how the plans for the counterattack were leaked by everyone and their mom last year, this time they did the right thing with secrecy.
Rome did something similar against hannibal
What? Handed out new rifles? I'm sure it was very effective.
Invading the enemy to force them to retrieve from part of their land
Next step: salt.
Andrey Gurulyov, a Russian lawmaker and retired major general, said in a televised interview in Russia on August 8 that the country's military knew about Ukraine's plans to attack Kursk a month before it happened.
"But from the top came the order not to panic, and that those above know better," Gurulyov said, according to a translation by The New York Times.
"So we staffed it with the greenest of recruits, and left it practically defenseless!"
Lmao, I'm sure they knew. Riiiiight xD
All according to keikaku
(Translator's note: keikaku means plan)
jokes aside it could have been the plan : leave some land and let ukraine extend logistic line.
Napoleon did burn Moscow before the catastrophic Winter retreat, Hitler almost went to Moscow during Barbarossa, at the end Russia survived
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https://www.businessinsider.com/ukrainian-soldiers-thought-order-to-invade-russia-was-joke-2024-8
https://www.economist.com/europe/2024/08/18/russias-double-punch-back-against-ukraines-shock-raid
"the orders to invade Russia"
If it's true that there were orders from the top to invade russia and that soldiers where waiting for these it sounds like the government is giving out plans and commanding the army. The government of ukraine and people from ukraine are two different things. When people ask what's the alternative to send billions to the ukrainian government what they need to understand is that people can defend themself even without an authority on top of them playing war games with soldiers and possibly forcing conscript to go on missions.
the government is giving out plans and commanding the army
Yeah, that's typically how the military works.
Yeah, that’s typically how the military works.
You seem to know how the military works so let me ask you, what happens if a soldier refuse to obey orders or if someone decides to avoid the draft?
That has nothing to do with your assertion that top-down direction in the army is weird or that the military is somehow not part of the government.
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No they cannot.
A disorderly mob is no more an army than a stack of building materials is a house.
- Socrates
This is even more true today as the amount of technology and co-ordination required to field a successful force is many orders of magnitude more complex. It is truly insane to suggest that people can just 'defend themselves' against an army unless I'm grossly misunderstanding your point.
No they cannot.
People have always found ways to defend themself and have always fought against tyrants.
- Socrates
You are quoting someone who was fine with slavery and probably lived an aristrocratic life.
This is even more true today as the amount of technology and co-ordination required to field a successful force is many orders of magnitude
You may have missed the part where ukrainians were defending themself from the second biggest army in the world with homemade drones.
Defending yourself and launching invasions or orchestrating soldiers are two different things
I never claimed that defending yourself was the same as commanding an army. In fact my whole point was that it's not. You haven't addressed the core criticism of your post which is that a group of individuals can in no way be as effective as an army.
Yes Ukrainians have been defending themselves with home made drones...and jets, and artillery, and air defence missiles, and ... an army. That's why there is still a Ukraine.
"People will always find a way" is a nice sentiment but I wouldn't bet my life or the lives of my family and countrymen on it.
group of individuals can in no way be as effective as an army.
They don't have to, their goal is to defend themself not to be the tool of same politician and invade other countries.
“People will always find a way” is a nice sentiment
That's what they have been doing.
Yes, they do have to because an army is what they're up against. I feel like we're living in different dimensions here or something. How do you expect a group of individuals to shoot down jets and incoming rockets, or form supply lines, or strategise at the level required to mount an effective defence, or maintain the necessary international relationships to ensure bullets keep getting delivered? That's barely even scratching the surface.
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They don't have to, their goal is to defend themself not to be the tool of same politician and invade other countries.
Ahh ok. So you know nothing about military warfare at all. Scattered resistance against an army is nothing but cleanup. The defense needs to be organized to be effective. How are you not embarrassed saying this BS?
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While soldiers should be well informed and educated, it is insane to say that an army can rely on ad-hoc strategy and bottom up leadership. That might work for guerilla warfare tactics, but it does not create a coherent force in any other situation.
There should be civilian control of the military, but internally militaries require command hierarchy for the most significant decisions.
The president/parliament says we attack this country with these wargoals, the general says we attack this region, the commander says we attack this town, the officer says we attack this road, and I decide where to walk and what to shoot. There is no time to have a committee meeting about this and it is bad for opsec for every soldier to know where every other soldier is going.
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Your point is?
I it's a tech bro trying to sell AI where the learning model is the Ukrainian people...
A few years ago this same guy tried to sell a blockchain weapons inventory system.
Before that crypto unlocked by biometrics just for soldiers so they can't lose their money.
Before that war "hover boards" for easier mobility and more speed through the fields.
Before that pet rocks so soldiers won't get lonely.
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If that is true than how evil are the Russian soldiers for wanting to invade an innocent country and willfully kill their civilians?
I see that the St Petersburg Research Centre is still thriving after Prigozhin's death.
....and blocked.
Message for the downvoters since there's quite many: I don't wish anyone to experience the horrors of war, when it inevitably happens remember that you stood for it.
Russia did not give the Ukrainian people much alternative while they stole land, killed their friends and family and kept lying about it all. No one wishes for war, but you cannot appease a bully indefinitely.
No one here stands for war. They stand for Ukraine defending itself, which you seem to have some strange issue with.
And I stood on the right side.
Going to war to kill evil invaders is not bad.
Invading an innocent country and killing their civilians is.
Sometimes people have no choice, war must happen at times. Until Russia, the ones who started and continue to perpetuate this war back out, then this war invasion is highly justified from a moral standpoint.
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this post was submitted on 21 Aug 2024
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