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submitted 1 year ago by boem@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world
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[-] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 104 points 1 year ago

I'm usually against tariffs but in this case it seems like a pretty fair tit for tat to China basically removing the budgetary concerns for their manufacturers that said manufacturer's international counterparts won't have.

Subsidizing local production for local markets is fine enough, but exporting products made with an infinite money glitch active is more or less an intentional play at market capture.

And before some sinoboo tries to gatcha me I do also object to examples where the west subsidizes domestic production for international markets.

[-] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 83 points 1 year ago

I want a $10000 car that would normally be inflated to $30000 in the US.

I’m no lover of China, but fuck the capitalist auto companies.

[-] Zipitydew@sh.itjust.works 44 points 1 year ago

That $10k Chinese car cost $20k to make. A competitor undercutting the market that much leads to monopolization. When that competitor is being bankrolled by a foreign government it's potentially even a hostile act.

People have been mad for decades about what Walmart did to retail in the US. Taking steps to prevent that from also happening with the auto industry should be appreciated.

[-] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 10 points 1 year ago

When they show me their manufacturing costs, I’ll believe that.

[-] fuckingkangaroos@lemm.ee 15 points 1 year ago

You're going to be waiting a long time to get reliable numbers out of the CCP.

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[-] Zipitydew@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 year ago

They won't because part of it is slave labor.

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[-] Novi@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 year ago

I was born into a car centric society. So much so they design the places we live around them. Including dense residential far away from employment that requires transportation. Chop all attempts at decent public transit and now you have created a market of completely artificial demand. Which the law says cars must become more expensive. I have to have a car because of the awful design choices made by unqualified politicians past. Fuck the auto industry. They could have been out saviors by being the example of what union companies do but instead chose violence.

[-] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 15 points 1 year ago

Ah yes, great way to fuck over our capitalists, by supporting their worse capitalists instead

[-] Lavitz@lemmings.world 21 points 1 year ago

I mean if we're being capitalists, that's how the free market works, right?

[-] Buttons@programming.dev 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

US auto makers were like "we love the free market", then people bought cheaper cars from China and they said "wait, not that free!"

[-] Zehzin@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

Certified "you criticize capitalism yet you live in it" moment

[-] Lavitz@lemmings.world 10 points 1 year ago

No ethical way to spend in a capitalist society. It kind of is what it is, cause I gotta eat. Also certified "you criticize capitalism yet you live in it moment" to you sir.

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[-] TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

"our capitalists"? what does that even mean ?

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[-] Pulptastic@midwest.social 31 points 1 year ago

I prefer the circular solution. Make a tariff equal to the delta, and use the tariff to subsidize local production and reduce the delta.

[-] Zipitydew@sh.itjust.works 19 points 1 year ago

Now this I can get behind. We should fight back by subsidization of production as heavily as China is theirs.

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[-] ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world 80 points 1 year ago

God forbid anyone get a cheap EV before US car companies sort out which $50,000+ car brand can position itself as the “luxury” one before accepting that they need to build cheaper models.

[-] miridius@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago

The Chinese ones are cheap because they're being subsidised by the Chinese govt to be sold that cheaply overseas as a deliberate economic attack tho

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[-] MadBigote@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

Chinese vehicles suck. Here in mexico they're all over the place, and their quality is questionable. MGs are a joke now. Good for the US to block these imports.

[-] ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

I’m more annoyed that basically every western car company tried to make a $70,000 luxury EV to upscale their brand instead of making a sensible one that people will actually buy. If we want widespread adoption, we need more EVs that aren’t priced based on some pipe dream that people will wake up one day and think Ford is a luxury brand.

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[-] hark@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

If these Chinese vehicles suck so much, why are US car companies so afraid of them?

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[-] natarey@lemmy.world 77 points 1 year ago

Don't buy shitty Chinese EVs, buy the somehow even shittier American EVs!

[-] Zehzin@lemmy.world 57 points 1 year ago

For twice the price.

[-] ripcord@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Source on American ones being shittier?

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[-] prole@sh.itjust.works 50 points 1 year ago

Wait, we were allowed to import these cars??

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[-] TheFeatureCreature@lemmy.world 38 points 1 year ago

I was just talking to my dad about this the other day and I told him that it was only a matter of time before the US government goes after Chinese EV's at the request of the US auto lobby.

I didn't think it would be this soon, though. Hurray for more garbage EV's for $50,000+

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[-] Zehzin@lemmy.world 36 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I'm surprised the auto cartel aren't making them be banned like chinese smartphones tbh

[-] TheFeatureCreature@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

They will if there is enough demand for 'em.

I’m frankly getting pretty goddamn annoyed at all the people who relentlessly fail to understand that the PRC is heavily subsidizing production of basically all of their EVs in the interest of undercutting literally all other countries that are (or are trying to) produce EVs.

By all means, research what I’m saying here to confirm its veracity - in fact I encourage you to. This is economic warfare, plain and simple.

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

And what do you think the EV rebates in the US are?

Fuck the rich. I need a cheap, safe, and reliable vehicle to get to work.

Do you understand the difference between subsidizing domestic purchases and subsidizing export production?

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[-] sirico@feddit.uk 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
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[-] thezeesystem@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago

Isn't this just a ban on Chinese evs? Just with extra steps? Make it impossible financially to sell it in the US pretty much is a ban without saying it's a ban

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[-] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 1 year ago

EVs are all about saving car dependency and the auto cartels, not saving the environment.

[-] MrSpArkle@lemmy.ca 15 points 1 year ago

This is unhelpful and reductive.

[-] MargotRobbie@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

Although the BYDs and GWMs and MGs are getting popular in Australia, I have literally never seen a Chinese EV in the States outside of locally built BYD busses, and BYD cars have distinct designs that are fairly easy to spot. So this feels like posturing to me.

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I have literally never seen a Chinese EV in the States outside of locally built BYD busses, and BYD cars have distinct designs that are fairly easy to spot. So this feels like posturing to me.

The Chinese business strategy has been to target East Asian, Indian, Russian, and West African car markets. They're not trying to compete with US cars in the United States. They're displacing US export markets in the Third World. You might be able to find them south of the border, however. In the first five months of 2023, Chinese exports to Latin America reached over 330,000 vehicles with a special focus on Mexico and Chile.

Meanwhile, the US has had a long and storied tradition of open hostility to foreign car manufacturers. Consequently ten different car manufacturers have plants in the United States.

These taxation and regulatory provisions are shockingly similar to the Chinese rules that guys like Biden and Trump deride as anti-competitive. And given the quality of US vehicles has long been sketchy at best, with a continued reliance on ICE engines in a market that increasingly favors the cheaper and more reliable electric vehicles, its questionable how long the Big Three domestic brands can even survive.

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[-] Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

Damn. I was interested in the Volvo ex30

[-] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 9 points 1 year ago

Its the Ticktok trend

[-] NoLifeGaming@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

Hmm yes true capitalism. Shun those you can't compete with

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this post was submitted on 10 May 2024
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