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this post was submitted on 16 Jul 2024
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Sounds like you're condoning this behaviour.
Edit: good old Lemmy, where saying it's bad to hate on people just because of where they're born will get you downvoted to oblivion. You all need to step back and re-examine your views.
It doesn’t say they’re excluding all Jewish people, it says they’re excluding Israelis. You know, people from the country where they all serve in the military, except the most extreme religious extremists (for now anyway), the country actively violating international law in the West Bank and actively committing genocide.
There are plenty of non-Israeli Jewish people. Non-Zionist Jews are lovely people and should not be excluded.
This is the same as refusing to do business with apartheid South Africans.
Reminds me of some of the tourism sanctions on Russians as well. I don't like when the net's cast too wide, I know for a fact there are Israeli and Russian peoples who would stop these conflicts if they could and it sucks they're caught up in this, but I can understand the premise of barring by nationality. I just also know in the case of Israel, it's likely going to be taken to far or used as a point to embolden bigots who may try to use this to cover their beliefs about all Jews and make them appear easier for normal folk to tolerate. Really a double edge sword because I do think Israel needs a dose of responsibility, hell if the world had the balls American could use one too.
Of course it hurts the average person similar to the way sanctions against a country hurt the average person. One of the goals is to get the average person upset against their government.
A tourism issue like that is a pretty small annoyance in the grand scheme of things, but it's one that sends a pretty clear message that's hard for the individual to ignore.
Not very effective against dictatorships governments, the average person already lost their privilege to "be upset".
Yup, as an American I will be voting for Biden this year and hoping for the best, but I won’t be surprised if my passport no longer has any staying power if Trump dismantles our democracy, and I won’t blame the countries that deny tourism from the US knowing what half the population will be like at that point
This is some random dude, not Benjamin Netanyahu. Would you support that hotel banning all Palestinians because they are governed by an internationally-recognized terrorist organisation?
When's the last time Palestinians got to vote for who they are governed by?
Not sure you’re seriously asking but the answer is 2006. Add to that the fact that the median age in Gaza is 18 years and it’s clear that Hamas doesn’t have a legitimate governance mandate. They’re a mob outfit.
Good point. We'd need a whole other thread to hash out the legitimacy of Hamas' rule. Palestinians right now are a bit like Italians circa 1942.
And Israel is Germany circa 1939.
Sounds like this is someone with significant ties to the IDF. Although since they force everyone except religious extremists to serve, maybe that doesn't mean much.
If they're able to conclusively prove that, then sure, I'm on board with the ban. I would question how some hotel clerk in Japan was able to make that determination, though. It could easily be a case of "most Israelis serve in the IDF and you are Israeli therefore GTFO"
Sounds like you didn’t comprehend their comment.
YES.
Denizens of an apartheid regime, beneficiaries of a genocide do not get to enjoy tourism abroad. Is that unequivocal enough for you?
Punishing unknown people for the actions of their government?
As a US citizen, this is concerning.
My government has done all kinds of shit I have no control over, and don't condone.
Should I be held responsible for any of it?
Yes, I agree, killing innocent people because of the country they are in is terrible.
So terrible that the act of limiting the leisure options of the people who support those actions becomes morally acceptable, because shaming bad behaviour is actually a good thing to do.
I would agree.
But not every resident of a nation supports the actions of their government.
The issue is the death of innocent people. Inconveniencing people such that they become motivated to stop their government from doing that seems acceptable, to me.
Maybe America would stop being such a shit show if other countries actually stoped cowtowing to American demands and forced is to behave properly.
Sure. But that's a different issue. That doesn't require punishing some random citizen; One who has nothing to do with, and no control over what the US, or Israel governments do.
You don't have a right to travel abroad. Am i being punished for not being allowed to fly to Russia, Iran or North Korea? I'm not Muslim nor do i work in ONG, so am i being punished for not being able to travel to Saudi Arabia? What about Cuba? South Africans had serious visa restrictions during Apartheid, which was absolutely justified when they were an openly racist regime.
Denial of hospitality is not the same as a punishment. Speak to US soldiers stationed on Okinawa and you’ll hear similar sentiments from the locals towards them
Saying “I don’t want to offer room and board to a IDF soldier who may have been in Gaza” isn’t a big leap for Japanese society, they’ve apologized for and reckoned with their imperialist past and brutal ethnic cleansing, and generally as a nation actively pushed for peace and cooperation globally. Israel hasn’t done the same, and doesn’t work towards the same goal.
I don’t want to be held responsible for the appalling actions of my government, but as a voter I understand why people in other countries would. I have more control over it than they do, so them influencing me influences my government.
Certainly something to think about isn't it?
That doesn't answer the question. Is it okay to punish people for something they have no control over?
Im not the one who made the claim, but punishing people over things they have no control over are exactly what sanctions are. Its commonplace and often done simply to protect national interests against foreign ones, no matter who's right or wrong.
That is true...
Well, like you said USA has punished and still to this day punishes many peoples of the World far far far FAR more severely than forbidding them to go on vacation for doing far less or even nothing at all. All I'm saying is as an American it would be a nice thought experiment for you to consider why you are or should be an exception.
I regret to inform you that according to Lemmy you are personally responsible for the actions of every other American, and are by extension a terrible human being who should never be allowed past the borders of your country.
We are all at least a bit responsible for what our governments do in our names.
Well the people who don't agree with their government and the consequences of its decisions should get out and vote instead of letting right wing extremists get their guy in power.
Yes, thank you for being forthright about your views, unlike most others here who are tiptoeing around it.
Does that include Chinese tourists? What about Palestinian Israelis?
Correct. Citizens of a government that is conducting a genocide ahould not be welcome in other countries.
Only in cases of genocide?
Nice awardspeechedit
You aren't being down voted for saying it's bad to hate on people because they're Jewish or Israeli.
You're being down voted for espousing a false dichotomy, on par with "if you aren't with us you're against us"
That's the boldest doublespeak I've seen in a long time. I'm not the one supporting a blanket ban of all citizens of an entire country. It doesn't get much more "with us or against us" than that.
You can't read. Those are facts and written in a passive voice. Condoning the behavior reads something like: "The state of Israel has sown seeds of ill will nurtured by lies and here comes harvest time" or "Yeah fuckers, get dunked on world stage" or something similar and in-between.
How on earth is that passive voice? Their whole reply is devoted to criticising Israel, and not a single word to the effect of "it isn't OK to treat people badly because of where they are from". This sounds an awful lot like victim-blaming to me.
Edit: let's try a little experiment. Imagine me replying this to an article about a Palestinian being banned from a hotel simply for being Palestinian.
Palestinians around the word are less safe because of Hamas when they were promised the opposite. Their faith has been used as a cover for terrorism and they put your holy symbol on a flag they go to war, and worse, under. It’s no wonder so many Muslims in the middle east are critical of Palestinians. It probably feels a lot like being a regular Christian watching Republicans commit violence with their religious iconography and warped interpretations used to create ‘justification’.
This is a really weird way of saying "it isn't OK to ban a random Israeli from your hotel just because they are Israeli".
Incredible bigotry and hypocrisy on display here. You know nothing about this "Alex" fellow. Maybe he's been out in the streets protesting against Likud and calling for an end to the war.
Found the person that wouldn't participate in sanctioning apartheid south Africa.
I 100% support sanctions against governments and specific individuals.